Jon
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 12:48:07 GMT
Post by Jon on Nov 1, 2008 12:48:07 GMT
Whilst every club is affected by the credit crunch, it is shocking to see how our crowds have tumbled far more severely than anyone else's. All the info is available on the excellent Tony Kempetser site - www.tonykempster.co.uk/attcomp.htmOur attendances have fallen by 33.8%. That is THE BIGGEST DROP of all the 116 clubs playing in the five national dvivisions. Grays are the second biggest droppers - just 28.9%. If you add in the 110 clubs that play at the two levels below us, there are still only four clubs (Farsley Celtic, Horsham, Hyde and Droylesden) who fare worse.
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Dave
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 13:02:02 GMT
Post by Dave on Nov 1, 2008 13:02:02 GMT
That Is not good reading Jon and I think you pointed out that the club would have done its budget Of far higher gates.
You have to ask why our club has seen the biggest drop In our gate, when we are near the top Of the table.I believe there are two main reasons.
Reason one Is that wages here are much lower than many Other places In the county, plus the cost Of living Is high here.This has to make disposable income even less for the people here and spending money on football, could well be something that would have to go, to make sure important bills were paid.
Two, I feel some fans excepted that we were in the BSP last season, but expected us to go straight back up, we did not do that and I fear that paying to watch football at this level and more importantly the price being charged to watch games, Is for some no longer attractive enough to get them to attend games.
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merse
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 13:20:48 GMT
Post by merse on Nov 1, 2008 13:20:48 GMT
I would suggest that OUR crowds THIS season are more a reflection of what would have occurred LAST season had we been lumbered with the "Dream Ticket" of Beeny and Rosenior that Bateson would have inflicted on us..............and if that had been the scenario and with the inevitable struggle that would have continued; we could now be looking at three figure attendances. Having said that, the new regime AND the blinding start to last season had their effect and inflated the figures well beyond reasonable expectations. Oxford United, and to a certain extent Wrexham; stand alone as groups of supporters who have maintained their loyalty following the devastating disappointment of loss of Football League status. Although when I survey a League 2 containing clubs like Accrington, Dagenham, Macclesfield, and the usual old lags like Rochdale, Bury, and the like I don't reckon it's that great a loss. I still contend that the level of bile, petulance and self damaging abuse aimed at the manager early season was out of all proportion to any reasonable level in the wake of the disappointment of losing out to the next door neighbours at the end of last season and we have to be thankful that the under fire manager and therefore the board proved themselves to have much more moral fibre and substance about them than the dissenters who have inflicted so much damage to the crowd figures and therefore the club's financial well being and ability to compete on the level we have been fortunate enough to enjoy so far. I'm NOT ignoring the financial pressures EVERYONE is under ( I'm certainly under them myself, hence being at home at this very time instead of at a match or racing) but I do feel OUR fans have a much higher percentage of those who can be considered to have let both the club and themselves down by staying away.
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Jon
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 13:48:28 GMT
Post by Jon on Nov 1, 2008 13:48:28 GMT
I do feel OUR fans have a much higher percentage of those who can be considered to have let both the club and themselves down by staying away. You're doing it again, Mike. Sorry, I mean Merse. The piece in the Herald today shows Alex Rowe very gingerly, and very cleverly, treading the line between outlining the realism of our situation and taking great care not to deflate optimism and sound critical of support levels. I've watched the PR gaffes of the past with a little horror, but just a little sympathy because it is so difficult not to fall into the hole on either side - talking down expectations so that low expectations become a self-fulfilling prophecy or giving false hope which is then thrown back at you as having lied if the hopes are not fulfilled. I think the Board has done the right thing in keeping relatively quiet so as not to risk having their comments picked over and criticised, whilst making very cleverly worded "optimistic but realistic" noises from time to time. Far better than the Merson / Bateson style of berating the locals! I always mention socio-economics as a reason Torquay always has (despite the "alternative history" view that it has only happened since 1990) and always will struggle for gates. Dave R is absolutely correct about disposable income being far lower in this area. And remember that it is the basics of life that have rocketed in cost, so everyone is hit by a similar amount. If you used to have £200 a week disposable income and the cost of basics has gone up £20 a week, you have to cut back a little. If you used to have £20 a week disposable income and the cost of basics has gone up £20 a week, you have to cut out everything non-essential. Torbay has a larger share of the latter group.
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merse
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 14:02:54 GMT
Post by merse on Nov 1, 2008 14:02:54 GMT
I wouldn't argue with that, but I'm NOT criticising ALL the fans, far from it; I was pointing to the one's who had spread the doom and gloom for no better reason than they wanted to vent their spleens..............they've contributed much to the damage. I'm perfectly aware of the realities of trying to live a champagne life style on brown ale wages down on the English Riviera. The very fact that it was so easy to descend to a flat beer and slops level of income was one of the prime reasons I buggered off!
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Jon
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 14:05:30 GMT
Post by Jon on Nov 1, 2008 14:05:30 GMT
the ones who had spread the doom and gloom for no better reason than they wanted to vent their spleens..............they've contributed much to the damage. Twas ever thus. It happens at every other club as well!
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bbcgull
Programmes Room Manager
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 16:33:45 GMT
Post by bbcgull on Nov 1, 2008 16:33:45 GMT
Whilst every club is affected by the credit crunch, it is shocking to see how our crowds have tumbled far more severely than anyone else's. All the info is available on the excellent Tony Kempetser site - www.tonykempster.co.uk/attcomp.htmOur attendances have fallen by 33.8%. That is THE BIGGEST DROP of all the 116 clubs playing in the five national dvivisions. Grays are the second biggest droppers - just 28.9%. If you add in the 110 clubs that play at the two levels below us, there are still only four clubs (Farsley Celtic, Horsham, Hyde and Droylesden) who fare worse. You can discount Horsham from that list too as they are platying their home games at Worthing now since leaving Atspeed last season. No doubt their fans find the distance too far lol!
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 17:52:45 GMT
Post by graygull on Nov 1, 2008 17:52:45 GMT
I have always been of the opinion that the biggest reason for attendance drops for the game in general is the over exposure on televison, still belive some folk will get their footy fix sat in front of a box rather then braving the cold and wet of winter on the terraces.
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 18:04:58 GMT
Post by jimd on Nov 1, 2008 18:04:58 GMT
The main reasons crowds have fallen so much are people dont have enough cash or they feel that the standard of football on offer just isnt worth the admission price. This is coupled with the fact that there is so much footy on telly these days. I dont think that a few people whinging on the internet or on the terraces has had much impact at all, no matter how much some people imply it as fact.
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 18:20:14 GMT
Post by daveshaw on Nov 1, 2008 18:20:14 GMT
So, the gospel according to merse is that it's the fault of the fans who quite rightly questioned Buckles ineptitude at the start of this season and for half of the last one. Fecking priceless! What a load of complete twaddle.
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merse
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 18:40:27 GMT
Post by merse on Nov 1, 2008 18:40:27 GMT
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 19:05:19 GMT
Post by daveshaw on Nov 1, 2008 19:05:19 GMT
Fair enough merse, but at the time we had lost 4 on the bounce and Buckle was continueing his useless run of crap football. Maybe he's learnt. Let's just hope he doesn't feck it up like he did last season!
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merse
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 19:52:08 GMT
Post by merse on Nov 1, 2008 19:52:08 GMT
Fair enough merse, but at the time we had lost 4 on the bounce and Buckle was continueing his useless run of crap football. Maybe he's learnt. Let's just hope he doesn't feck it up like he did last season! .............and to be fair to Buckle, Aldershot began their campaign last season getting hammered out of sight by us on their own patch and they didn't hit the top of the league until November. Paul Buckle took the brave decision to radically alter the squad and vary the methods of playing from week to week but people like YOU were all too quick to crucify the guy and do the whole club (players, management ,board and LOYAL supporters; a huge disservice) I really suspect that YOU genuinely believe your dreadful behaviour has galvanised the team effort whereas I would contend that anything that MIGHT be achieved will be in spite of you and your sort rather than because of you!
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Dave
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 20:14:22 GMT
Post by Dave on Nov 1, 2008 20:14:22 GMT
Bit harsh there I feel Mr Merse, Dave Shaw was only posting what many others were doing as well,for you to say
radically alter the squad and vary the methods of playing from week to week
does not really tell the true story and that was that Bucks was simply experimenting, with his lets play Mid fielders as defenders. Something many felt should have been tried and sorted In the pre season and not In our league games.
It was only when this radical approach to defending was put on the back burner and defenders used to do what they do best and that Is defend, that our results turned around.
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merse
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Crowds
Nov 1, 2008 20:21:53 GMT
Post by merse on Nov 1, 2008 20:21:53 GMT
I totally disagree with you on that. 1- Pre-season experimentation will only tell you so much, what transpires in the heat and battle of a competitive football tells you far more than friendlies ever will. 2- Variations on last season's rather one dimensional first half of the campaign, obviously didn't work well last season with the squad as it was, so the manager HAD to be allowed time to assimilate all the new arrivals.
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