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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 18:07:49 GMT
Post by aussie on Nov 3, 2008 18:07:49 GMT
I don`t see why a name needs to be on any news from the club. Why do you want a name attached? It can only be that people want blood for errors made and thus a name attached gives them direction in which to lay blame. So I ask you Dave R " Why do you need a or one name on something when it probably took more than a dozen people to make nearly every decision of any worth or substance at the club?" If there has been any in house fighting at Plainmoor then it is best to leave that behind closed doors and let the Directors sort it out and not read into something that you couldn`t possibly have a clue about. I`m not saying that I know what happened, in fact I don`t have a clue therefore I am not coming up with any conspiracy theories either, if the club says something then the club says something END OF! Oh yeah I`ve not been on the booze yet i`m waiting for my dinner to settle first then I`m going for it!
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Dave
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 18:25:40 GMT
Post by Dave on Nov 3, 2008 18:25:40 GMT
aussie you are so wrong about what I know and most on here except that I do know the whole story. I did only have one side for some time, given to me first hand and not second, I was given the other side last week.
Any in house fighting as you call It will remain in house, for now anyway, that may not be the case, If things say went to court, but I have already posted on this, that I now do not want to be told anything else, as Its gone way over my head.
Every club should have a figure head, one who addresses the fans and the media, a spokesman for the club and the rest Of the board who have made any decision. There Is no good reason why that person can't have a name, can you give me a reason why he should not.
Back to the .com statement, concern was only raised In case that statement was done In spite, aimed at hurting another, If you know the facts, you would understand why both Merse and I felt, that statement should have had a name put to It.
Like I say, things have changed since them, as now both sides Of the story are known to me.
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merse
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 19:44:43 GMT
Post by merse on Nov 3, 2008 19:44:43 GMT
I don`t see why a name needs to be on any news from the club. Why do you want a name attached? It can only be that people want blood for errors made and thus a name attached gives them direction in which to lay blame.  The reason I felt that the statement on that particular subject should bear a signatory was for the singular reason that if it did not come from the person involved in the dispute I felt it was ill advised to allow a situation where it could be construed that it did. I do know now who compiled that statement, and take it from me; it was not the person involved. I don't have a general view that all statements should be attributable to particular people, just that in this instance it would have been prudent. I don't wish to point any fingers in any directions.....................it is none of my damn business. I am just saddened the whole episode occured and that is why I personally have kept my comments on this subject to a minimum on this forum. |
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 19:49:52 GMT
Post by atheringtongull on Nov 3, 2008 19:49:52 GMT
Once again Merse is on his soap box. Yes, we all know I was one of Buckle's critics at the start of the season and I've taken more than one blast from Merse because of it. But I have been to every home game so far this season in spite of the criticisms I made. Please tell me Merse, how can the fact that people have been critical of Buckle actually affect the gates? Surely it's the ones who have been to the early season games and seen the rubbish that was being played and decided for themselves. We don't need to go into what happened again, but as I pointed out at the time, it wasn't just the first 8 games of this season that Buckle was being judged on, it was all the games post Xmas, when we carried on playing the same way every game. I think that is why most of that 1000 or so don't come any more. Nothing to do with the disappointment of not getting promoted or winning the Trophy, just disillusionment with the type of football being played. I well remember a certain Mr. Phillips shouting to Robbo when he was looking to pass the ball to someone "just hoof the bloody thing". One very good reason for not having him back here.
On a serious note though, has anyone got fixture lists to show how often Exeter and Plymouth are playing at home at the same time as us? I know the other week all 3 teams were at home the same time.. This must have a affect on our attendances.
If we get through to the next round of the cup and get a good home draw we'll see them all coming out of the woodwork then and complaining when they can't get a ticket!!
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Deleted
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 20:25:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2008 20:25:43 GMT
The good news is that, since Jon started this excellent thread, Tony Kempster’s site reports our crowds are now only down by 33.1% (as opposed to 33.8%).
At the start of the season someone asked me if I thought attendances – throughout the game – would be affected by the economic situation. We kicked it around and agreed that away followings would probably be reduced at most clubs. As for home support we decided that, more than ever, it would depend on how the club was doing alongside any specific local factors. Should a club be doing well, gates would rise or hold up. Should it do badly – or be seen to stagnate – crowds would probably fall faster than normal.
Look at Tony Kempster’s site and you’ll see plenty of examples of this happening: rises and falls, large and small. Then view the divisional breakdown:
- Premier League 3% down
- Championship 3.3% up
- League One 6.4% down
- League Two 4.2% down
- Conference 1.4% down
This looks like an overall decline to me but I’m not sure if it’s in the panic mode suggested by the Sunday Independent (which I think is lifted from the BBC anyway). Surely the situation of each SW club fits what is expected: Argyle and Bristol Rovers pottering along, Yeovil struggling, anti-climax at Bristol City, best times in years at Exeter. A thin story I think.
The exception, of course, is Torquay United and this thread has suggested a number of explanations, some of which can be termed local factors. My concern is that the dye is now cast and I’m pessimistic about the chances of crowds increasing by much. Look at the fixtures and where will the 4,000 crowds come from? Cambridge should be healthy, maybe Weymouth on New Year’s Day but then, good form permitting, you’re probably looking to April (unless a big cup tie can stimulate extra, earlier interest).
The point about away followings in this league is valid. Clubs such as Salisbury and Histon have done well to build home crowds from 400 to 900/1000 in a few years but it would take many seasons, and the development of an embedded culture, for away support to grow to a reasonable level.
Furthermore, although the economic situation has been with us throughout 2008 the timing of it becoming daily news - in the first few weeks of the season - has not been good for football. The credit crunch – reality, perception, caution or whatever depending on the individual – is giving people a valid reason (or maybe an excuse) not to come to football as often as usual.
I’ve often wondered how many different individuals, away fans aside, come to Plainmoor each season. If we average 2,500 home supporters, how many individuals is this? 4,000? 7,000? 10,000? How many games does each attend? My hunch is that hardly anybody will stop going completely this season. Similarly few will start coming.
Simply, many are coming less often. Some are being picky: quoting end-of-last season, start-of-this season or whatever reason. Others, even diehards, are missing the odd game more often (possibly because the BSP doesn’t quite have the allure of the Football League). The thing about people being more picky – or selective – is that their choice of games may be pretty random beyond the obvious stand-out games.
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Dave
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 20:39:33 GMT
Post by Dave on Nov 3, 2008 20:39:33 GMT
A first class and very well written post bartondowns, I would have to agree that the die may well be cast and gates will stay low.
I think even the games you feel could be the 4000+ games may well be much smaller gates than that. Look at the last bank holiday gate, not sure how many It was, I do remember thinking Is was very low.
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 22:39:54 GMT
Post by crooky on Nov 3, 2008 22:39:54 GMT
Once again Merse is on his soap box. Yes, we all know I was one of Buckle's critics at the start of the season and I've taken more than one blast from Merse because of it. But I have been to every home game so far this season in spite of the criticisms I made. Please tell me Merse, how can the fact that people have been critical of Buckle actually affect the gates? Surely it's the ones who have been to the early season games and seen the rubbish that was being played and decided for themselves. We don't need to go into what happened again, but as I pointed out at the time, it wasn't just the first 8 games of this season that Buckle was being judged on, it was all the games post Xmas, when we carried on playing the same way every game. I think that is why most of that 1000 or so don't come any more. Nothing to do with the disappointment of not getting promoted or winning the Trophy, just disillusionment with the type of football being played. I well remember a certain Mr. Phillips shouting to Robbo when he was looking to pass the ball to someone "just hoof the bloody thing". One very good reason for not having him back here. On a serious note though, has anyone got fixture lists to show how often Exeter and Plymouth are playing at home at the same time as us? I know the other week all 3 teams were at home the same time.. This must have a affect on our attendances. If we get through to the next round of the cup and get a good home draw we'll see them all coming out of the woodwork then and complaining when they can't get a ticket!! Agree 100% |
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Enzo
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 23:03:11 GMT
Post by Enzo on Nov 3, 2008 23:03:11 GMT
Enzo, while I will party agree with you that In the case Of what alpinejoe was referring to (the piece In the newspaper) then no It may not be to important that any name was put to anything. You said ...........the message appeared on the official website and stayed there, unedited for weeks - can anyone explain why we need to have a particular signatory? The answer Is very simple On this one enzo, there was a big fall out and some felt that the person who put that message on .com, was one Of the parties involved. It was the nature, Or how that message could be taken that was the problem. I'm sure you would agree that taken the wrong way, by some In the trade Sean Is in, could do harm to his company. If It was the other party then both Merse and I felt he should have the balls to put his name to It. If It was someone else, as It could well be, then In this case putting a name to It would have saved, what ended up as even more agro. Dave - with respect, it does not matter how you, or anyone else felt. It is a matter between the club and the sponsor. The fact that the statement remained on the official TUFC website says all people need to know about who issued the statement - no need for a signatory - it should be read as the official position of the club......surely?  . If you feel someone should have balls to put his name to a statement then you should have the balls to come out and say who you think that should be.........that ain't going to happen is it? The internet does not have any balls. We have a legal system for that kind of dispute and if the sponsor feels aggrieved then there is recourse to the law. It's not perfect, but I'll put my trust in it - I don't care who was right or wrong to be honest......, but hope justice is done. The wider problem of communication is driven by fans like ourselves. There was a time that the only info I got was from the Herald at 2pm and, if we had done something big, Ceefax page 312. That was fine. The world still turned, we still signed players and there were still disputes within the club - You just did not have muppets playing the "I know more than you" card and muppets like me wanting to listen to them! |
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Dave
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 23:11:18 GMT
Post by Dave on Nov 3, 2008 23:11:18 GMT
Enzo, I do agree with you points and we know now that statement was not made by the person, who we will just call the other party. At the time It did look like It could have been, but I will admit I was wrong to think that.
Its not a case Of not having balls enzo, only that this has moved somewhere I feel I do not want to go, to be honest I never asked for any phone calls and In hindsight I may not have taken them.
I still hope that all party's find the best way forward and end up with what they want and that the club does not suffer In anyway.
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Dave
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 23:20:02 GMT
Post by Dave on Nov 3, 2008 23:20:02 GMT
I would also add enzo the thread that I had started about the sponsor, was never about me saying I know more than you, It was more about making sure people did not start saying City Link were In trouble, Or to start any attracts On Sean.
As you surly understand my hands were tied as to what I could say, but was only trying to stop crap being put around.
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Enzo
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 23:23:35 GMT
Post by Enzo on Nov 3, 2008 23:23:35 GMT
Enzo, I do agree with you points and we know now that statement was not made by the person, who we will just call the other party. At the time It did look like It could have been, but I will admit I was wrong to think that. Its not a case Of not having balls enzo, only that this has moved somewhere I feel I do not want to go, to be honest I never asked for any phone calls and In hindsight I may not have taken them. I still hope that all party's find the best way forward and end up with what they want and that the club does not suffer In anyway. Agreed. Nothing personal Dave. Cheers |
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Enzo
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 23:28:26 GMT
Post by Enzo on Nov 3, 2008 23:28:26 GMT
I would also add enzo the thread that I had started about the sponsor, was never about me saying I know more than you, It was more about making sure people did not start saying City Link were In trouble, Or to start any attracts On Sean. As you surly understand my hands were tied as to what I could say, but was only trying to stop crap being put around. Yep.....once again Dave, I see the position you were in and it was not meant as a critisism of yourself or any individual - just our quest as fans for every tiny piece of information whether it is acuurate or not. It would not have happened on Ceefax pafe 312! |
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Dave
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Crowds
Nov 3, 2008 23:33:14 GMT
Post by Dave on Nov 3, 2008 23:33:14 GMT
Thanks for your understanding Enzo, I will say that while I know many have strong views about Sean and he would agree, some have had reason, I have always found him good to chat with and I know he really was so over the moon when he got to sponsor the club.
The fact that It has all fallen apart, Is what I find so very sad and I do mean that, that Is why I hope those that have been hurt In this mess can find the best way forward and have no lasting scares.
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merse
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Crowds
Nov 4, 2008 4:24:57 GMT
Post by merse on Nov 4, 2008 4:24:57 GMT
1- Please tell me Merse, how can the fact that people have been critical of Buckle actually affect the gates? Surely it's the ones who have been to the early season games and seen the rubbish that was being played and decided for themselves. We don't need to go into what happened again, but as I pointed out at the time, it wasn't just the first 8 games of this season that Buckle was being judged on, it was all the games post Xmas, when we carried on playing the same way every game. I think that is why most of that 1000 or so don't come any more. Nothing to do with the disappointment of not getting promoted or winning the Trophy, just disillusionment with the type of football being played. **************************************************** 2- I well remember a certain Mr. Phillips shouting to Robbo when he was looking to pass the ball to someone "just hoof the bloody thing". **************************************************** 3- On a serious note though, has anyone got fixture lists to show how often Exeter and Plymouth are playing at home at the same time as us? To the address points you make: 1- Whilst respecting your view that only those who "suffered" the games were the ones carrying out the criticism, I would suggest that there are a significant number who didn't go to all the matches who jumped on the bandwagon. Some of the tripe that has been posted on the Herald Express site and (presumably) in the hard copy editions has bound to have had a detrimental effect on the attendances and the fact that the paper allow such posts without then either acknowledging them or taking issue with them, is wrong as far as I'm concerned. Despite the "rubbish" as you describe it, that was played in the early season games; and in the second half of last season. There was precious little criticism then - save for a few "purists" who would have had the fringe members of the squad utilised more often. The team were looking like they could still win promotion and the FA Trophy. I would contend it was when the manager tried in vain to vary the style to a more ball retentive and constructive style that things went wrong and criticism rained in. Your reference to Phillips might well underline that it was in fact some of the players who ultimately produced the "hoof it" style rather than the manager instigating it...............and it might also underline why that particular player is no longer with us! I personally feel therefore that the games that brought the most criticism of the manager last season were when he radically altered the formation and style i.e. Grays away and the Play Off semis. I always felt it was unreasonable to be so critical at the start of THIS season as it seemed obvious to me that (along with Stevenage and Rushden) there was a new style and a significant number of new players to assimilate....................time has shown that time itself was needed for all this to gel, and now that it has the club are suffering low gates at a time when surely the product is better to watch than ever before at this level. 2- Lee Phillips' way of playing is rather obsolete to us now, he had his time with us and did well at what he personally does well and I Wish him all the best wherever that career might take him( I'm sure Bournemouth would bite his hand off if he can take their wage structure) so we'll wait and see what materialises. 3- significantly the BSP decided to"opt out"of their fixtures being index linked on the Football League computerised system for this season, and instead compiled their own "manually".....................I'm not impressed!  |
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Crowds
Nov 4, 2008 12:05:21 GMT
Post by aussie on Nov 4, 2008 12:05:21 GMT
Dave R, mate I wished i could phrase things as well as Enzo, like what he said in every respect. And I am sorry I got a bit emotionally carried away but perhaps next time I will read all of the topic and not just the few quotes that I did read, kind of prone to the old knee jerk reaction when it`s about something I really care about. The Club Comes First, a rule I try to adhere to! I think some others could benefit from that phrase by the way.
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. If you feel someone should have balls to put his name to a statement then you should have the balls to come out and say who you think that should be.........that ain't going to happen is it? The internet does not have any balls.