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Post by stefano on May 11, 2010 16:06:32 GMT
Thatcher didn't need the tanks to rolls down Whitehall, Main Street, Stanley was plenty good enough. She won elections handsomely under FPTP, but always with a minority of the popular vote. Yes I always blamed her and her Conservative Government for the Gulls finishing bottom of the league in 1984/85 and 1985/86 and for nearly sending us out of the league in 1986/87 by setting her stormtroopers and their dogs on our full back!
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on May 11, 2010 17:36:15 GMT
I always thought that Mrs Thatch was a little misunderstood.
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on May 11, 2010 18:39:29 GMT
Brown resigns.
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keyberrygull
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Post by keyberrygull on May 11, 2010 18:41:48 GMT
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on May 11, 2010 19:07:02 GMT
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merse
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Post by merse on May 11, 2010 21:40:36 GMT
So now we have an establishment party fronted by a bevy of Old Etonians propped up by a party supposedly of the radical school of politics how do those who voted Liberal Democrat (particularly those who contributed to the excellent majority in Torbay) feel now that their vote has been used in this manner? Surely if you had establishment leanings you would have voted Tory in the first place. I know how I would feel, because as I see it one cannot get two more diametrically opposed political positions than establishment and radical, yet all of a sudden the radicals jump into bed with the establishment.........................could this signal the unraveling of Liberal Democratic rank and file support for their political leader? Interesting times, puzzling times and when the nitty gritty of the exact detail of the soul selling comes to be public knowledge; I personally think that the radicals, who (again in my opinion) possess a greater understanding of their own rational in how they cast their vote than those of other political leanings; will have more to berate their leadership over than praise them for. We had a "victory" for the Liberals in the TFF poll, so come on you who cast your "vote" that way.............................give us your opinions!
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Post by stefano on May 11, 2010 21:53:35 GMT
We had a "victory" for the Liberals in the TFF poll, so come on you who cast your "vote" that way.............................give us your opinions! It wasn't me. Honest!
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merse
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Post by merse on May 11, 2010 21:56:46 GMT
We had a "victory" for the Liberals in the TFF poll, so come on you who cast your "vote" that way.............................give us your opinions! It wasn't me. Honest! I didn't think it was Margaret, I didn't think it was! ;D
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Post by stefano on May 12, 2010 6:25:15 GMT
It wasn't me. Honest! I didn't think it was Margaret, I didn't think it was! ;D It doesn't actually matter which way I vote in General Elections as in the constituency I live in the Conservatives could put a chimpanzee up as their candidate and he would get in! European and local elections are more interesting and as fewer tend to vote in them an individual can feel that their vote can make a difference. Well it's all over now (although probably only until next Autumn or Spring for the next election) so let's archive this thread and move on to the Summer Carnival of Football in South Africa ;D
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Post by lambethgull on May 12, 2010 6:59:40 GMT
We had a "victory" for the Liberals in the TFF poll, so come on you who cast your "vote" that way.............................give us your opinions! Labour never stood a chance at this election, Merse, and was always going to be reliant on Lib Dem MPs in a hung Parliament if it was to have any chance of forming a government. I will confess that I thought the Liberals would only ever provide sufficient support for David Cameron to form a minority Conservative government and it is a bit of a surprise to me that they appear to have formed a full coalition with them. But it’s not a bad thing. An unstable minority government (whether Tory or Lab/Lib) would have been bad for Labour and the Liberal Democrats. A collapse of that Government within 6 to 12 months – possibly before Labour had even elected a new leader, but probably shortly afterwards – would have been a disaster, as the Conservatives are the only party with the necessary resources to fight a new election. The Liberals meanwhile would almost certainly have lost seats to the Conservatives. The current situation won’t provide the most stable of governments, but it will probably be stable enough to last for more than 12 months. Those who oppose the Tories will have to hope their programme of cuts prove unpopular, whilst putting their faith in the Liberals to temper the worst Tory excesses. Labour meanwhile should take the opportunity to elect a new leader and renew itself whilst at the same time exploiting a favourable Parliamentary environment in which to hold the Tories to account. I don’t hold out a huge amount of hope of the Lib Dems being able to deliver much of their commitments to electoral and political reform (reforms which, in the main, should be favoured by democrats of all political persuasions), but they are in a better chance of doing so now than they have ever been. And that was one of the reasons they secured my support at this election.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 9:52:26 GMT
We had a "victory" for the Liberals in the TFF poll, so come on you who cast your "vote" that way.............................give us your opinions! After voting Labour in various parts of the country between 1979 and 1987, I carried on voting the same way when I was in Taunton in 1992, 1997 and 2001. Then, in 2005, I finally decided to vote tactically in favour of the Lib Dems given that Taunton is always a lost cause for Labour. This time, living in Exeter, the obvious and natural thing for me was to vote Labour. So I can’t answer Merse’s question directly but, had I still been living in Taunton and voted tactically again, I’d be absolutely bloody livid with myself. Furthermore I would be vowing – as I am anyway – never to ever contemplate voting Lib Dem again for whatever reason.But who would be to blame for my rage – me or them? The truth is that it’s a three-party system which, in reality, resembles a three-legged stool. The inclination is to see the Lib Dems in the middle but, clearly, they can also be seen in their own corner of the triangle. Then it’s probably further complicated by there being at least three types of Liberal voter: the anti-Labour; the anti-Tory and the actual Liberal. And, amongst the core Liberals, there’s probably a further three categories of those who – when the chips are down – would veer towards the Tories, Labour or neither. That’s the nature of the beast and I’ve always been fascinated by Westcountry Liberalism. On the one hand, you can see it is part of a regional tradition that goes back several centuries and is a force in itself. On the other, there is the curious business of how Labour politics never quite took off in these parts in the early 20th century. Matters such as class and industrialisation clearly played a part (and explain Labour’s strength in Plymouth) but I’ve always sensed a local dislike for Labourism as a grubby, upcountry form of politics. Could this be part of a resistance towards class-based politics? A barmy theory of mine says the references to “working people” (or similar) you may hear in some parts of the country are replaced by mention of “locals” in many Westcountry conversations of a similar nature. Yes, politics is less classed-based as parties strive to be seen as “classless” – and we’re now being advised not to be so tribal – but I imagine there’s a fair number of anti-Labour Liberal voters in the South West who might not be quite as devastated by the news as we may assume. Also many “purer” Liberals who will welcome the opportunity of involvement at long last? How the Liberal vote divides in places such as Torbay and Taunton is a matter of conjecture. I sensed an anti-Tory Liberalism amongst the generally professional/public sector types I knew in Taunton. But looking back to growing up in 1960s and 1970s Torquay – my only real experience of the town as a resident – I sensed a strong anti-Labourism at school, at home and in our social circle: Labour wasn’t really for the likes of us in cul-de-sacs on the English Riviera. Then I choose to go to a northern university and my political views changed within months. Has Torbay changed as well and, to rephrase the original question, how are Liberal voters responding there?
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merse
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Post by merse on May 12, 2010 13:35:20 GMT
Barty stated:
"After voting Labour in various parts of the country between 1979 and 1987, I carried on voting the same way when I was in Taunton in 1992, 1997 and 2001. Then, in 2005, I finally decided to vote tactically in favour of the Lib Dems given that Taunton is always a lost cause for Labour. This time, living in Exeter, the obvious and natural thing for me was to vote Labour. So I can’t answer Merse’s question directly but, had I still been living in Taunton and voted tactically again, I’d be absolutely bloody livid with myself. Furthermore I would be vowing – as I am anyway – never to ever contemplate voting Lib Dem again for whatever reason."
Barty and I seem to be on exactly the same wavelength politically and I certainly would be livid if I were a Liberal activist or party member, and would certainly never vote for them again in any way.
As far as his assessement of Westcountry attitudes towards the Labour Party and it's political acceptability to the population goes; again I would entirely agree with him........................it's as if the rural population have a strange sort of "deathwish" to sustain their age old masterclass and carry on tipping their forelock in obedience. Strange really in that the history of the Trades Union movement owes it's birthright to the Tolpuddle Martyrs.
As for Lambeth's assertion that a Lib/Con Coalition is going to be "good" for this country in the situaton it finds itself, we'll have to wait and see but as far as criticism of Labour's record on public spending and creating employment during a time of worldwide recession stands; I can only point out how bleak things would have been in the previous era of the "Market Lead" philosophies of the Thatcher regime when the ruling classes she represented were only too happy to sit back and gloat over the demise of this country's power base communities ~ power bases that had been earned through the sheer bloody hard work and graft of it's workers in basic industries such as coal and power, steel production and shipbuilding.......................industries that had earned them a fortune as private investors but ones they were unwilling to persevere with and invest in as national power brokers once they were nationalised.
As I have found to my cost as a self employed worker who currently finds himself unable to work through health issues....................once your usefulness and profit potential ceases to exist to your work provider they no longer have any interest in you or your welfare. In the month since I became unfit for work, I have not received one phone call or communication from my work provider. No statement of interest in my health or welfare; nothing.
Says it all doesn't it, and THAT'S why I vote for the party that cares for the working man and the socially needy!
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Post by lambethgull on May 12, 2010 15:46:24 GMT
As for Lambeth's assertion that a Lib/Con Coalition is going to be "good" for this country in the situaton it finds itself It was, quite simply, the only viable option based on the results of the election. If anyone can provide a compelling argument otherwise, I would be interested to hear it.
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merse
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Post by merse on May 12, 2010 16:23:33 GMT
It was, quite simply, the only viable option based on the results of the election. If anyone can provide a compelling argument otherwise, I would be interested to hear it. Not the only option at all. The Liberal Democrats could have stood their ground and remained the third party in numerical strength, thus leaving the other two parties to struggle with their percentage of the vote. They could have supported or opposed each and every Government proposal as they saw fit and retained their credibility. If that had led to another rapid General Election, so be it. If that meant that the parties could not afford the blanket campaigning and bullshit we all had to suffer then fine, let people make their minds up without all the bluster and lies. If anyone is simple and gullible enough to believe proportional representation in the House of Commons comes of all this they want to chack they don't have a great big thingy sticking out of their forehead ~ Tory Turkeys will NOT vote for Christmas!
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Enzo
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Post by Enzo on May 12, 2010 17:01:46 GMT
It was, quite simply, the only viable option based on the results of the election. If anyone can provide a compelling argument otherwise, I would be interested to hear it. Not the only option at all. The Liberal Democrats could have stood their ground and remained the third party in numerical strength, thus leaving the other two parties to struggle with their percentage of the vote. They could have supported or opposed each and every Government proposal as they saw fit and retained their credibility. If that had led to another rapid General Election, so be it. If that meant that the parties could not afford the blanket campaigning and bullshit we all had to suffer then fine, let people make their minds up without all the bluster and lies. If anyone is simple and gullible enough to believe proportional representation in the House of Commons comes of all this they want to chack they don't have a great big thingy sticking out of their forehead ~ Tory Turkeys will NOT vote for Christmas! I support your general view - as a left of centre voter who voted tactically I feel let down. However, the scenario you outline would have led to another election and a large Tory majority by the end of the year. 20 more seats for the Labour party (which probably would have come had Brown stood down last year) would have made things so different. That didn't happen and as much as I resent the Lib Dem action, I can see that the numbers just didn't add up. On a brighter note - it could all have been so much worse for Labour. It is very, very difficult for any party to win four lections on the trot - even with this, the economic downturn, the Brown effect, the sleaze, Ashcrofts money and Murdoch's media empire Cameron couldn't even get a majority! Anyone who thinks the Tories won this election is deluded. Three parties lost this election. I am hoping that Labour select a decent leader and present a decent opposition - the only opposition, and that they are ready and waiting for the time that this shabby agreement falls apart - as I have no doubt it will wthin the next couple of years. Should it go wrong, as I suspect, then the Liberals have just commtted electoral suicide. No matter what choice is presented to me in future elections, I will not be able to vote Lib Dem. There are many, many like me in marginal seats. EDIT - just check out the back slapping between Cameron and Clegg on entry to Downing Street. Like two lovers. Awful.
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