Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 14, 2009 19:32:14 GMT
I have always taken the view, that its no good just moaning about things and there comes a time when some action is needed to be taken. I have made countless posts on the forum about how I feel the stewards have been treating anyone who stops to have a quick chat with me and also the c song that now seemed a feature at every home game.
After reading Ali's post and the one by Aussie about his little girl, I decided that today I would have a talk with the head steward on the popside. I would say that such a chat would not have been possible a few seasons ago, when the stewards were all the Plymouth ones, but Steve 004 is a true and life long TUFC fan. I would say at this point it shows why we need to get more local people trained up to act as stewards in our ground.
Steve is a very easy man to talk with and Barton Downs was beside me and said afterward how impressed he was with how I conducted my conversation, but Dave R is known as a talker and one who has the gift of the gab.
I firstly raised my issue with Fans Forum Members being moved as soon as they stopped to have a quick chat with me, I wanted to know why this has just started happening and I also explained why fans being able to stop and say hello to anyone they come across in the ground is important and part of the social side of attending Plainmoor.
The reason it has been happening is that some stewards are working on their NVQ that is needed to do the job, we have had some accessors in the ground checking up on these stewards and marking them etc. We now have one more home game to come (our next one) when we will have assessors in the ground and after that I have been promised that things will be relaxed and we can go back to having our quick chats. The only time this will change is for any games that may be games where we have police etc or any assessors back in for other stewards NVQ tests.
I then went on the explain my displeasure of the new song that has been going on for too many games now, the one that the c word is used in it, aimed at both the ref and the lineman. It was at this time he contacted the Safety Officer and set up a meeting with him for me.
Steve was very aware about the song and said his wife hates the word and he himself would get a clip around the ear if he ever said it in front of her, I said that while we all have to accept that there will be swearing in football grounds, I felt the use of the c word was a step to far. The safety Officer said he was not aware it was being sung and it was news to him, but he also is a TUFC fan and felt it was not suitable and needed to be stopped.
I also went on to say that I was unhappy that a forum member was abused verbally by the c word singers when she told them to shut up and I also raised the issue of Aussies 10 year girl having her handbag searched. I made it clear that I did not want to see fellow fans thrown out of the ground, but felt some strong words were needed to them by the head steward and if that failed them maybe removing one or two might then get the message across that it will no longer be tolerated in our ground.
The Safety Officer was also going to have a chat with Collin Lee after the match, true to their word the head steward had words before the game started and a big well done to all the young lads who never sung the song once during the whole game. Just before the end of the game the Safety Officer contacted Steve and asked him to come and see me to find out if I was happy with their action.
I informed Steve I was very pleased with the outcome and after the game had a further chat with him. To Ali and anyone else who may suffer any abuse in our ground, please go and talk with Steve 004, such behavior toward any fans will not be tolerated and we now need to continue to rid our ground of such behavior.
To Aussie, I understand how you felt on Tuesday, the assessors were in the ground on that night and all the stewards had to do everything by the letter, I know that may not change anything in your view, but I hope you understand why it had to be done.
Plainmoor should be a place we enjoy going too, a place where we will no suffer any form of abuse, or have to put up with songs that go past the point of decency, lets hope things will now continue to improve.
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on Feb 14, 2009 19:47:03 GMT
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Post by aussie on Feb 14, 2009 19:53:03 GMT
To Aussie, I understand who you felt on Tuesday, the assessors were in the ground on that night and all the stewards had to do everything by the letter, I know that may not change anything in your view, but I hope you understand why it had to be done.
I didn`t feel anyone mate, or was that just a bit of dislexia creeping in? ;D
I`ve spoken to the stewards aswell and am satisfied with what they said, My daughter and myself were taken through reception and walked to our positions on the pop side, kind of made my daughter feel special so they made up for it.
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merse
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Post by merse on Feb 14, 2009 19:53:53 GMT
 That's an excellent way to go about matters Dave and also (if I might say so) an enlightening report of procedings. Perhaps now Dave, you might have a little more sympathy for the match officials who also have to work under the observations of assessors!  As I said recently, I feel a visit to Plainmoor these days is a perfect example of professionalism, friendliness and helpfulness. Not for one moment could I imagine getting treated in the same ignorant way I was at Ebbsfleet over being refused a seat, lied to and then totally ignored by their Chairman when I emailed him. Neither could I imagine the frankly embarrassing and unwelcome way we were all treated at Woking, nor the iniquitous two tiered pricing policy that Stevenage impose on the away seats as opposed to the very generous offers to home fans. We have much to be proud of at OUR club..................a club "owned" by and run by fans and therefore thriving for the experience. What a crying shame only a paltry 1,700 or so bothered to turn up and support them today!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 14, 2009 20:08:27 GMT
aussie it was meant to be HOW and not WHO, changed once again, I really need to spend more time reading what I write |
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Post by aussie on Feb 14, 2009 20:11:42 GMT
I know what you meant I was being flippant!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 21:42:42 GMT
I'll happily confirm Dave's reporting of his discussion with Steve, the head steward, and will add both parties conducted their business in precisely the right way. Well done all round.
Merse's observation about referees and assessors certainly struck a chord for two reasons. Firstly, I've already seen at least one referee this season - at the Bridgwater v Truro game - resort to excessive assessor-pleasing. The result was chaos.
Secondly, away from football, my feelings about the NVQ approach to training and learning are ambivalent. It's certainly encouraging that these qualifications have plugged gaps in areas where training hasn't previously existed. Consequently, it's good news our stewards are going through a properly-structured process. Good luck to those at Plainmoor attempting to achieve their awards.
On the other hand, I come from a profession where a perfectly adequate qualification to do the job has been pushed aside by a NVQ which seems designed to develop automated employees rather than free-thinking and innovative types. As part of this process I've also seen how colleagues - often of mediocre calibre - have pushed to become assessors as the first step to moving up the career ladder. Tick the boxes, join up the dots and off you go!
It's a difficult one but sometimes I believe society is starting to suffer from this increasingly widespread call for consistency which we hear in all walks of life these days. I'd consider myself more PC than many but alongside "consistency" I'd argue you often get too much inflexibility and rigidity. Others, of course, may say this is desirable and justify it with the language of frameworks and competences. I know we tend to say we want consistency and common sense but I think sacrificing a little of the consistency in favour of common sense - in many aspects of life not just in football - often still gets the best results.
Hopefully, we're seeing a return to sound, sensible stewarding at Plainmoor. A while back we discussed the nature of policing at football grounds in the 1970s and 1980s which, all round, were as much a product of the times as anything else. When clubs, such as Torquay United in that early post-1980s period, started to replace police officers with stewards at "ordinary" matches we witnessed a big step forward for the game and the way we experience it. Torquay United, more than most, have much to be proud of in that direction over the years.
This, of course, makes the deployment - I use that word deliberately - of the Plymouth-based stewards a rather unfortunate episode. I've never described them as Argyle stewards - because Argyle hire the company in just the same way as we do - and, in the beginning, I believed the use of a specialist outfit (presumably recommended to us by another football club) made practical sense. It now seems that both clubs rue the day they hired a form of "expertise" which lends itself to the rougher end of the night club business rather more than a football ground.
Lastly, a little tale from today. Before the match I stopped at the excellent Hanbury's in Babbacombe for fish cake and chips. Waiting for my order I started watching Swansea v Fulham on the chippy TV (I've actually got an historic soft spot for both clubs) and was at pains to discover if Garry Monk was playing. Before my chips arrived Garry had his by unluckily putting through his own goal. This brought a surprising degree of mirth from the counter staff and comments about what "Alan's son" had just done. It appears Alan Monk's business does the cleaning at Hanbury's and the poor man recieved a phone call from the shop almost immediately to remind him of his son's misfortune.
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Mr_W
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Post by Mr_W on Feb 14, 2009 22:23:03 GMT
...Excellent posting Barton!!
....cheers..........
Chris D/Mr_W
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 14, 2009 23:59:53 GMT
Barton Carol has passed her NVQ3, but does it make her any better in her job? she works in a care home and what is really needed is a caring attitude, being able to listen and I know she sees everyone in the home as a granddad or grandmother.
Its the home that requires her to have an NVQ, maybe not as high as level three and does the home want that so it can satisfy some body or other that its staff are trained to a better standard.I listened to the J.Vine show in the week(every day ;D) and they were talking about social workers. Now we all know about some recent cases that have gone sadly very wrong and young lives have been lost, but I was shocked that they need to have a degree to do the job.
Now some I have known have not had children so they really may not fully understand some aspects of family life, a degree won't teach you common sense thats for sure.The point I'm making is that such jobs require so much learning from books etc to get some award at the end, but miss out on the real skills that may be needed.
Who sets up all these requirements anyway? the government? if not then it must be some government department who has to do something to justify its existence, like so many things in life, far to much red tape and people having to train for useless bits of paper.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2009 9:52:15 GMT
I listened to the J.Vine show in the week(every day ;D) and they were talking about social workers. Now we all know about some recent cases that have gone sadly very wrong and young lives have been lost, but I was shocked that they need to have a degree to do the job. Dave, I think the issue with social work is that a lot of knowledge - theoretical and practical - is needed as well as the right personal qualities. For a long time the qualification was a Diploma in Social Work which took two years and was mainly taught by universities and colleges. Over the last few years this has been changed to a degree which can either be done full-time at university or on a part-time basis for people already working in social care. If you're doing it full-time you'll need to do 200 days work experience as part of the course. Switching from a diploma to a degree was an attempt to improve and modernise training and it's very different to doing a degree in something like history. You'll find the same has happened in nursing, and many health care professions, not just in Britain but elsewhere. Who sets up all these requirements anyway? the government? if not then it must be some government department who has to do something to justify its existence, like so many things in life, far to much red tape and people having to train for useless bits of paper. The British government is pushing better training - and more vocational qualifications - just like governments throughout the developed world. Much of the work is being done through government agencies such as the Qualification and Curriculum Authority, sector skils councils and other bodies which involve employers. I'm glad this is being done and think credit should be paid where it is due. But it's also true it's part of the target-driven culture which you'll find in public service organisations in numerous countries. Britain wants to compete in the international league tables - such as those produced by organisations such as the OECD - and the government has to pass these targets downwards for progress to be made. You'll find certain demands will be made of South Devon College just as Torbay Council (like any unitary authority) will have a string of targets. Take a look at this: www.nomisweb.co.uk/query/construct/submit.asp?forward=yes&menuopt=201&subcomp=&Session_GUID={F6A160E8-E7A9-4B6C-9EA4-C3FF2069DBE7}It's the percentage of Torbay's working age population that is qualified to NVQ level 4 equivalent or above. Once this figure exists, the government is likely to discuss a target with Torbay for how much it will grow by, say, 2011. Throughout the system - not just for qualifications but also for other "measurables" such as re-cycling and teenage pregnancy rates - there will be financial rewards and penalties. Businesses, such as care homes, get sucked in because having qualified staff - and loads of logos to display for awards such as Investors in People - is seen as being necessary in order to compete. The whole process becomes a treadmill from which it's difficult to jump off. It's all a bit sad how developments, which are essentially admirable, bring out our cynicism. From a professional point of view I'd say much of what's happening is good but it's also something of a gravy train. My favourite NVQ story is how, some years ago, Bridgwater College introduced a carnival skills qualification. More recently the college has been talking about a foundation degree in nuclear power station decommissioning. From personal experience I know Bridgwater College is an excellent institution (it actually does courses with Paignton Zoo) - and I'm sure there's a lot of great stuff in these qualifications - but sometimes you have to smile at the thought of it all. |
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ali
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Post by ali on Feb 15, 2009 12:41:58 GMT
 Thanks Dave Sounds all good and positive, seemed a far more relaxed atmosphere yesterday than Tuesday night. It started off a bit 'SSSHhh we are not allowed to swear' but by the end people seemed to be enjoying the atmosphere and the game, hopefully this will start off a generally happier club both on and off the pitch.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 15, 2009 12:52:20 GMT
Ali my soul aim was not to get our fans removed from the ground, but to find a way that both young and old could once again stand side by side and happily on the popside. I said before that because nothing was being said and nothing being done to stop the c song, the group took it that it was OK to do it and as a result, it has been getting worse. The stewards had a word, made it known it was not going to be tolerated anymore, while they went quit for a while and were not singing at all, they later found their voices again and just sung songs that are acceptable to use and ones that would not cause the offense the c word song did. I hope this is how it will continue and now that is has been brought to the front so to speak, the head steward has to keep to his word and not allow things to go backward again, I'm sure Steve 004 is a good man and one who will remain true to his word, if not I'll have another word in his ear  |
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Post by gandalfgull on Feb 15, 2009 20:02:28 GMT
so pleased you had that chat. I have said several times that people need to speak about there things. Well done Dave
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 24, 2009 23:49:27 GMT
I had a chat with steve 004 before the game and at half time, I did realise tonight just how hard it is to deal with some of the problems in the ground, just how you do stop fifty people singing a song and how can you pick out one the throw out.
The important thing is, it is being taken seriously and has not been forgotten, but it is not going to happen over night and I'm sure things will improve over time.
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Post by steve2009 on Feb 25, 2009 0:24:17 GMT
hi to you all, this is Steve 004, may i take this opportunity to thank Dave for his kind words, and may i also take this opportunity to re-iterate what Dave has said, i too am a great believer in family entertainment, in my eyes there is nothing better than the family enjoying quality time together, be it at a football match or a day at the beach, we all deserve to enjoy these experiences without abuse, of any kind, be it verbally or physically, be it at work or leisure. i write to you all to let you know that after the events of tonights match against forest green, where once more Dave had pointed out to myself that the was once more swearing in the stands, and also the fact that a steward had actually laughed along with this element, i acted true to my word and approached both the steward, at fault, and also some fans, with reference the swearing, two things happened, 1) the steward took on board the fact that he should not have acted that way, 2) other members of the crowd started to abuse me for approaching the swearing parties, and advising them that it will not be tolerated. so on one hand i felt that i had kept to my word with Dave, and on the other i felt quite rightly, why am i doing this?  my answer to myself was........... i enjoy doing what i do, the majority of people appreciate my efforts, i do my job and duties as a supervisor to the best of my abilities, and i will continue to work to the best of my abilities to bring a happy atmosphere to the pop side. i have 16 years experience in close protection work, 6 years in the armed forces, and i love the interaction with people of all ages. however when at a later stage of the game i had to ask someone to come out of the stands, may i add he was not man handled, i requested he come with me for a chat, and he followed, as i had seen an object being thrown at the official linesman, it was then watched back on the CCTV and discovered it was not him but the person stood next to him, so he was allowed to resume his evening back in the stands, the abuse and verbal threats we received were absolutely disgusting. i had food thrown at me, i was spat at and one gentleman(so called) even offered to wait for me outside, and i don't think he meant to walk me home lol. our role at the ground is to ensure the safety of you all, from spectator to officials, from child to Grannie, infant to pensioner, please understand that we all realise how passionate you are about TUFC some things we do may seem petty, but we are trying to please you all. Dave as a personal note to you, i have been informed tonight the two warning and the third offence your out rule we now work on looks like it may be being reduced to one warning and second time your out, also there is talk of a ground ban for persistent offenders, please could you all take note that, we have been told it is in the ground rules that foul or obscene language will not be tolerated. i do not want to spend my time at Plainmoor which i thoroughly enjoy, taking fans out of the stadium for swearing but if we have to we will. many thanks and hope to see you all at the next game. Steve PS you can't please all the people all of the time, but i do try to please some of the people some of the time. any advice or comments ( constructive ones ) on how we can address any of your issues or concerns then please do not hesitate to leave me a message on the forum or feel free to approach me in the pop side, Steve 004 |
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