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Post by gandalfgull on Feb 26, 2009 16:16:45 GMT
Your right Dave it is for the club to address it, the stewards shouldn't have to police language. Yes there is some level you expect but some is beyond it. LOL can you imagine them printing a list of words not accepted ?!!
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Post by mickyflash on Feb 26, 2009 17:21:20 GMT
ali how he never got booked for that I'll never know, mind you if he could cross the ball as well as he kicked that corner flag, we might score more goals. The flag went half way up in the grandstand and if it had have hurt anyone then you can bet a claim would be being sent into the club. I had wondered why more hadn't been made of this on previous posts/match reports. I want to put this question to the qualified referees on the forum; A player kicks a corner flag into the crowd (regardless of whether he intended to or not). It really was traveling like a javelin as it entered the stand about 15 rows back. Really lucky no one was injured, or worse. What action should the ref have taken ?? Straight Red Card ?? or quiet word in his ear ?? For me it had to be RED. I don't want to labour the point on how bad the ref was, i have missed the boat on that one. Key decisions i felt he got wrong; After 10 minutes Benyon put through, by Wroe's only decent pass of the night, found himself clear with only keeper to beat. Was a couple of yards onside when the ball was kicked. Penalty; Harsh is an understatement. Benyons 'goal'; A yard onside and the ball was laid back to him. 3 'corner' decisions given as goal kicks. His control over the game was abysmal. He made far to many mistakes. You cant blame the FGR keeper for wasting time, he was allowed to get away with. An early poster suggested he couldn't have been the reason for the draw, I BEG TO DIFFER. It wasn't the only reason, but it was the most significant reason. At the end of the day no matter how well or poorly we played, those decisions were down right WRONG. Had he not made those mistakes we would have won. Yes the officials was abysmal on Tuesday night. We all saw it and we all know it. This is in no way their his defence BUT If I was being called a C*** for 90mins I wouldn't give that side any 70/30 decisions, let alone the 50/50 I know the referees would always never admit to any favoritism but having reffed a bit in my time myself it is human nature to have some form of opinion on the two sides even if it is only subconsciously. This is happening week in week out now. Surely we are not doing ourselves any favours? As far as Muzzy and the corner flag, I may be wrong as its been a while but if the game was being played to the letter of the laws of the game he should have recieved a booking |
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Post by davepougher on Feb 26, 2009 17:58:31 GMT
Thanks steve2009 for your input it certainly helps to see the other side of an obviously difficult job.
I too spent far too much time carrying out security duties during my forces career. One thing I learnt during high tension moments is what ever decision you make you have to be forthright and decisive i.e.; confident without hesitation. With this in mind I was surprised when you came out with comments like;
i have been informed tonight the two warning and the third offence your out rule we now work on looks like it may be being reduced to one warning and second time your out
And
also there is talk of a ground ban for persistent offenders.
With the emphasis on the underlined sections.
This may seem like nit picking but it gives an air of a singular decision made by yourself and appears unprofessional which is what many complain about in the environment in which you work and I'm sure not what you want.
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merse
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Post by merse on Feb 26, 2009 19:51:44 GMT
BUT If I was being called a C*** for 90mins I wouldn't give that side any 70/30 decisions, let alone the 50/50I know the referees would always never admit to any favoritism but having reffed a bit in my time myself it is human nature to have some form of opinion on the two sides even if it is only subconsciously.  If that is the case, and you were an official referee; then you were a bloody disgrace. If you can't rise above that, even worse; descend to that level of idiocy then you should never even contemplate being a referee! |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 26, 2009 20:02:38 GMT
davepougher, how does the parts you underlined look like a singular decision that is being made by Steve 004? he clearly stated i have been informed tonight the two warning and the third offence your out rule we now work on looks like it may be being reduced to one warning and second time your out. I believe the stewards were in the ground after the game for a meeting and Ideas were put forward maybe, to solve some of the problems. Or have I misread your post, or missed its meaning  |
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Post by steve2009 on Feb 27, 2009 10:36:37 GMT
good morning to you all I'd like to respond to the comment made by Dave with reference him being removed from the ground, i feel sure that it will never happen, he has always acted in a professional manner and i feel sure as he stated, if it ever did happen and he deserved to be removed then he would leave quietly, lol, back to the problems in hand, the fan who said that the safety officer had been called to see the ref and officials after the game was correct that torquay can be penalised, for not providing a safe and sterile area for the officials, after the match on Tuesday night, the referee stated that he would be making the FA aware of the abuse and threats he and the other officials suffered, we are still waiting for a response to this, which i am sure will result in all the stewards and supervisors being told to be harder on the offenders. which brings me to the point. should we act harder?  ? how would the forum members suggest that this be achieved??? with this in mind please be aware that many of the stewards and supervisors are SIA trained NVQ trained and have attained the position's they hold with hard work and by proving there ability to deal with any situations that arise quickly and efficiently. some of you may judge the harsh reality of some of the methods employed to attain the safe extraction of individuals, however the old adage of safety first and foremost, has to be employed and sometimes the only way to control a situation is to go in hard and fast, extract the offender or offenders, and then hope that the extraction allows the true fan to watch the rest of the game safely and secure in the knowledge that the stewards and supervisors are indeed worth there weight in gold. however on a lighter note, i am hoping that when i see you all at the next game that those of you that read this forum will at least say hi and introduce themselves and if they have any issues to discuss then please feel free to approach me before the kick off. have a safe weekend whatever your doing, i have to attend an NVQ3 course on Saturday, so think of me when your all chilling out over the weekend, I'll be slogging it out in a classroom. many thanks for all your input, i am taking things on board Steve 004 |
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Feb 27, 2009 10:59:49 GMT
good morning to you all I'd like to respond to the comment made by Dave with reference him being removed from the ground, i feel sure that it will never happen, he has always acted in a professional manner and i feel sure as he stated, if it ever did happen and he deserved to be removed then he would leave quietly, lol, back to the problems in hand, the fan who said that the safety officer had been called to see the ref and officials after the game was correct that torquay can be penalised, for not providing a safe and sterile area for the officials, after the match on Tuesday night, the referee stated that he would be making the FA aware of the abuse and threats he and the other officials suffered, we are still waiting for a response to this, which i am sure will result in all the stewards and supervisors being told to be harder on the offenders. which brings me to the point. should we act harder? ? how would the forum members suggest that this be achieved??? with this in mind please be aware that many of the stewards and supervisors are SIA trained NVQ trained and have attained the position's they hold with hard work and by proving there ability to deal with any situations that arise quickly and efficiently. some of you may judge the harsh reality of some of the methods employed to attain the safe extraction of individuals, however the old adage of safety first and foremost, has to be employed and [glow=red,2,300]sometimes the only way to control a situation is to go in hard and fast, extract the offender or offenders, and then hope that the extraction allows the true fan to watch the rest of the game safely [/glow]and secure in the knowledge that the stewards and supervisors are indeed worth there weight in gold. however on a lighter note, i am hoping that when i see you all at the next game that those of you that read this forum will at least say hi and introduce themselves and if they have any issues to discuss then please feel free to approach me before the kick off. have a safe weekend whatever your doing, i have to attend an NVQ3 course on Saturday, so think of me when your all chilling out over the weekend, I'll be slogging it out in a classroom. many thanks for all your input, i am taking things on board Steve 004 By 'true fans' do you mean fans that don't swear? |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 27, 2009 12:40:55 GMT
By 'true fans' do you mean fans that don't swear? No shane Steve means the fans who go to watch and enjoy the match and support the team and not act in such a way that not only ruins the game for other fans, or allow their behavior to fall below a reasonable level of decency. surely not a lot to ask or expect is it? |
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Feb 27, 2009 13:08:46 GMT
By 'true fans' do you mean fans that don't swear? No shane Steve means the fans who go to watch and enjoy the match and support the team and not act in such a way that not only ruins the game for other fans, or allow their behavior to fall below a reasonable level of decency. surely not a lot to ask or expect is it? Absolutely agree Dave, as i said in a previous post. Of course those that spend 90 minutes using foul language, and embarassing the rest of us in the process need to be dealt with. I was just clarifying that there is a distinction there. By what has been posted previously, it appears anyone could potentially be removed from the ground for swearing, and subsequently be referred to as something other than a 'true fan' in the process. I'm sure that's not the intention. |
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Post by chrish on Feb 27, 2009 14:24:12 GMT
No shane Steve means the fans who go to watch and enjoy the match and support the team and not act in such a way that not only ruins the game for other fans, or allow their behavior to fall below a reasonable level of decency. surely not a lot to ask or expect is it? Absolutely agree Dave, as i said in a previous post. Of course those that spend 90 minutes using foul language, and embarassing the rest of us in the process need to be dealt with. I was just clarifying that there is a distinction there. By what has been posted previously, it appears anyone could potentially be removed from the ground for swearing, and subsequently be referred to as something other than a 'true fan' in the process. I'm sure that's not the intention. Personally speaking I would try and find a way of banning those idiots at Kettering from travelling on the official supporters coaches. As for the idiots who sing "the referees a knut" song should be dealt a severe warning by both the club and the stewards and they need it to be made crystal clear that if they try singing it again they will banned from watching the game. Its the organised element of singing a song with a rude word in it that bugs me, I think on the other hand you have to be aware that although some fans might particpate in this, there will be people who might use the occasional swearword in response to something that frustrates and/or infuriates. Its been very rare for me to get through a whole football match without swearing at least once, but I don't go to the game with the intention to swear. There's a big difference in calling the linesman "a f**king disgrace" in the heat of the moment, then waiting for for a slightly iffy refereeing decision as an excuse to sing "the refs a knut". |
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Feb 27, 2009 14:27:57 GMT
Personally speaking I would try and find a way of banning those idiots at Kettering from travelling on the official supporters coaches. As for the idiots who sing "the referees a knut" song should be dealt a severe warning by both the club and the stewards and they need it to be made crystal clear that if they try singing it again they will banned from watching the game. Its the organised element of singing a song with a rude word in it that bugs me, I think on the other hand you have to be aware that although some fans might particpate in this, there will be people who might use the occasional swearword in response to something that frustrates and/or infuriates. Its been very rare for me to get through a whole football match without swearing at least once, but I don't go to the game with the intention to swear. There's a big difference in calling the linesman "a f**king disgrace" in the heat of the moment, then waiting for for a slightly iffy refereeing decision as an excuse to sing "the refs a knut". Pretty much what i was attempting to say. |
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Post by mickyflash on Feb 27, 2009 14:59:34 GMT
BUT If I was being called a C*** for 90mins I wouldn't give that side any 70/30 decisions, let alone the 50/50I know the referees would always never admit to any favoritism but having reffed a bit in my time myself it is human nature to have some form of opinion on the two sides even if it is only subconsciously. If that is the case, and you were an official referee; then you were a bloody disgrace. If you can't rise above that, even worse; descend to that level of idiocy then you should never even contemplate being a referee! Firstly I was never an Official referee, I have never aspired to be one either, and maybe as you point out it is just as well! I have done some reffing after running a team at the very lower end of the footballing ladder and I can tell you I Know plenty of official referee's who have their favorites at this level so please dont tell me it doesn't happen. It does! Next you will tell me they all show up sober as well! Secondly My point was that subconsciously it is human nature for the referee to side with one team or the other, and calling him a C*** for 90 mins isn't helping our cause |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Feb 27, 2009 16:51:25 GMT
Shane I know how you feel about words being used like true fan. or a proper fan etc and we have touched on the subject before. You were concerned and rightly so that any fan who seems to others as a moaner, or one who asks questions of the manager, must not be viewed as a non-fan or any less a fan or even as not as good as say a fan who we might call a happy clapper.
I hope we all agreed that being a fan was in our heart, if defeats or losing big games caused real pain and tears, we would know how much thew club meant to us and we would know we could call ourself a fan.
My talk with Steve 004 was honest and open and I made the point very strongly that I did not want to see fans removed from the ground, unless there was no other way, I stated that in football we all know that people are going to swear, as Chris Hayes has said, it can come out in a moment of rage due to some event out on the pitch.
This has only ever been about one song and the word used in it and that is all I have asked Steve, is to try and bring an end to its use in the our ground, as I think you will find it hard to find anyone who really agrees its OK to sing this song. Well I know a small bunch of fans who do think its OK, but its not just decent people who are getting upset, its also the refs and the linesmen.
The FA will not take kindly to the club, if it receives complaints from the officials who take control of any game, I'm sure the club would not be happy to start getting fines from the FA due to the abuse officials now are subject to at Plainmoor.
While I hope nothing comes from Tuesday nights game, a part of me feels that if the FA did take action, then the club would at last take some action and if the club were to address these singers and make them aware of the problems they could cause the club, you would hope as proper fans, they would listen and then realise that it would be better to find other songs to sing.
We talk about the lack of atmosphere at home games sometimes, I will never join in with some songs that get aired, but there really are some great songs and chants I would join in with.Would it not be better for our main singers to use songs others will be happy to sing? we would all be one together then and not divided as we are now.
I have also said I think things are much better in the ground with the stewards and we as fans can build on that, Steve has listened and has come on here as a fan and a steward and has give anyone the opportunity to express their views and also give any input into how they would like to see the stewards do their job.
I want to come into the ground, say hello to any I have got to know, I will keep to the rules I know I have too and would then expect the stewards to leave me alone to enjoy the game unless I gave them any reason to come and have a word with me.
Some things have to change and they can be done in a nice and quite away, the singers will have a choice in the end, stop the C word song or face the real risk of being removed from the ground. I stress again that this is not what I want to see happen, but the ball will be in their court in the end. It may well take having to remove a few to get the message home, but I would hope that they will see that it really is causing offense to fellow fans and will do the right thing on their own.
No one is going to be removed for an outburst of swearing, but if the organised singing of the C word does not stop, then we will find the stewards having to be more heavy handed to deal with it, do we really want that? NO, lets get this sorted quickly and in a friendly manner, most of the stewards are now local and many are TUFC fans just like us. I would rather keep these than see the firm go back to using Plymouth stewards and that is what could happen.
Lets just make Plainmoor a place for all to enjoy, both young and old and be a place that we can be proud off and know we are all very top football fans and be proud to stand with one another.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Feb 27, 2009 18:11:22 GMT
As i've said i'm in full agreement with a 'hard-line' being taken on those indulging in this song every week. It needs to be stopped. My concern was the suggestion that anyone heard swearing faces ejection from the ground. I still think that's somewhat excessive (and dare i suggest, with attendances as they are), perhaps not in the clubs best interests...
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Post by aussie on Feb 27, 2009 18:12:20 GMT
Steve 004, good luck with your NVQ3 mate. I`ll be playing football against Chudley, so won`t be chillin` till I get back and watch the Mighty Yellows beat Oxford on Setanta.
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