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Post by stefano on Dec 12, 2010 13:51:12 GMT
I did know about the Window Tax actually. Every Primary school child in England knows that. I think you'll find they don't!  |
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Post by chrish on Dec 12, 2010 14:06:32 GMT
Can I ask the question.........Is violence against the state ever justified? I would argue yes it is. When the state forgets that it is there to serve the people and not push them back into serfdom. British people are now slaves to the Banks with Gov't supplying the muscle and the means of transferring the cash to them. To achieve this they have to keep the people down and scared to rise up against them. If Gov't pass laws that only serve to keep their masters in power at the expense of the people they should be removed by whatever means necessary, including violence against the state. The problem is that the Military and Police are used as arms of the state and not protectors of the people. Our Soldiers and Policemen should remember that they too are paying the price along with their families. They should be on the side of the people and tell their masters so. That would put the wind up the faceless Banksters robbing us blind and tell Gov't to remember who they serve! You would have to wonder about the repercusions if the mob who attacked the royal car actually managed to get at the Horse and the German. I travelled up to yesterday's game with a PC yesterday who was on duty in riot gear in Parliament Square most of the week and he was saying that if the SEG (Special Escort Group) protecting the Royal car were doing their job properly then they should've shot the bloke we had managed to poke a stick at Camilla. |
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petef
Match Room Manager 
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Post by petef on Dec 12, 2010 14:43:23 GMT
Can I ask the question.........Is violence against the state ever justified? I would argue yes it is. When the state forgets that it is there to serve the people and not push them back into serfdom. British people are now slaves to the Banks with Gov't supplying the muscle and the means of transferring the cash to them. To achieve this they have to keep the people down and scared to rise up against them. If Gov't pass laws that only serve to keep their masters in power at the expense of the people they should be removed by whatever means necessary, including violence against the state. The problem is that the Military and Police are used as arms of the state and not protectors of the people. Our Soldiers and Policemen should remember that they too are paying the price along with their families. They should be on the side of the people and tell their masters so. That would put the wind up the faceless Banksters robbing us blind and tell Gov't to remember who they serve! You would have to wonder about the repercusions if the mob who attacked the royal car actually managed to get at the Horse and the German. I travelled up to yesterday's game with a PC yesterday who was on duty in riot gear in Parliament Square most of the week and he was saying that if the SEG (Special Escort Group) protecting the Royal car were doing their job properly then they should've shot the bloke we had managed to poke a stick at Camilla. In Thailand they usually shoot first and rarely ask questions after, especially if the "bung" is big enough  We are at least civilsed enough to respect human life to a certain degree. The offender should consider himself lucky that he lives in a Western democracy where you can get away with asaulting royalty without loseing your life. |
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chelstongull
TFF member
Posts: 6,759
Favourite Player: Jason Fowler
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Post by chelstongull on Dec 12, 2010 14:52:28 GMT
I did know about the Window Tax actually. Every Primary school child in England knows that. I think you'll find they don't! I learnt about it from Blackadder. |
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Post by aussie on Dec 12, 2010 17:33:22 GMT
You would have to wonder about the repercusions if the mob who attacked the royal car actually managed to get at the Horse and the German. I travelled up to yesterday's game with a PC yesterday who was on duty in riot gear in Parliament Square most of the week and he was saying that if the SEG (Special Escort Group) protecting the Royal car were doing their job properly then they should've shot the bloke we had managed to poke a stick at Camilla. In Thailand they usually shoot first and rarely ask questions after, especially if the "bung" is big enough We are at least civilsed enough to respect human life to a certain degree. Some would say that we respect it too much sometimes, like paying for terror preachers to live here on benefits and preach their anti-English propaganda, DTG`s views are one extreme and to the other we seem to live under the rules of political correct stupidity, there has got to be a better common or middle ground in which we should be operating, that`s how I see it anyway! |
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Post by Ditmar van Nostrilboy on Dec 12, 2010 18:16:12 GMT
I wouldnt normally join in with political rights and wrongs debate but will throw a couple of facts in reply to earlier posters comments (cant be bothered to do the multi quoting thing though)  The fact that the UK has a nuclear deterrent is of no consequence to permanent membership of the UNSC. If we scrap Trident tomorrow we will still be a permanent member. The UK does not require US permission to launch Trident. It can be launched by UK government order. On the subject of spending on defence, surely the primary role of any government is defence of the realm? Casting my mind back to History lectures many moons ago, I seem to remember that was the initial reason for income taxation back in the first place (Napoleonic wars I think but stand by to be corrected). The new aircraft carriers would, without doubt, have been cancelled in the spending review, had the contracts not been such a cluster (probably deliberately) that cancellation would have been more expensive than carrying on (wonder which constituency gains most from carrying on?). As it is we will now have carriers but no aircraft to fly from them!! As for the students, I think 92nd summed it up very well. The vast majority appear to have had their purpose hijacked by the usual rag-tag anarchists that appear at any large demo in london. |
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Post by lyddlass on Dec 12, 2010 19:21:40 GMT
You would have to wonder about the repercusions if the mob who attacked the royal car actually managed to get at the Horse and the German. I travelled up to yesterday's game with a PC yesterday who was on duty in riot gear in Parliament Square most of the week and he was saying that if the SEG (Special Escort Group) protecting the Royal car were doing their job properly then they should've shot the bloke we had managed to poke a stick at Camilla. In Thailand they usually shoot first and rarely ask questions after, especially if the "bung" is big enough We are at least civilsed enough to respect human life to a certain degree. The offender should consider himself lucky that he lives in a Western democracy where you can get away with asaulting royalty without loseing your life. or is not being Devonian a crime to you?? |
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Post by Bayern Gull on Dec 12, 2010 19:27:51 GMT
In Thailand they usually shoot first and rarely ask questions after, especially if the "bung" is big enough We are at least civilsed enough to respect human life to a certain degree. Some would say that we respect it too much sometimes, like paying for terror preachers to live here on benefits and preach their anti-English propaganda, DTG`s views are one extreme and to the other we seem to live under the rules of political correct stupidity, there has got to be a better common or middle ground in which we should be operating, that`s how I see it anyway! The fact that people with abhorrent views can live in the UK (and yes, sometimes on benefits if they are entitled to them) is one of the (diminishing number) of things that separates us from them. |
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Post by Bayern Gull on Dec 12, 2010 19:32:48 GMT
The UK does not require US permission to launch Trident. It can be launched by UK government order. In theory but under what conceivable circumstances would that happen? |
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chelstongull
TFF member
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Post by chelstongull on Dec 12, 2010 19:39:44 GMT
I must admit that I don't really understand this concept of allowing those folk who hate living in the UK and who preach hatred to the people (and death to those living in the UK)* of the UK to stay in the UK.
Throw them out and their sponging friends and families.
* Freedom of speach my arse.
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Post by loyalgull on Dec 12, 2010 20:18:34 GMT
I must admit that I don't really understand this concept of allowing those folk who hate living in the UK and who preach hatred to the people (and death to those living in the UK)* of the UK to stay in the UK. Throw them out and their sponging friends and families. * Freedom of speach my arse. totally agree chelstongull,those fortunate enough to be allowed to stay here should be made to sign a declaration,no crime,no treason,no terrorist backing,if they do put on their bike where they came from.But this country sadly isnt doing it,we mollycoddle the little darlings,even giving british citizenship to convicted murderers bless em |
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Post by stuartB on Dec 12, 2010 20:25:09 GMT
First Bryan Ferry's son and now Dave Gilmore's adopted son. Music is the root of all evil, ban it!!!! |
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Post by lambethgull on Dec 12, 2010 20:30:52 GMT
I must admit that I don't really understand this concept of allowing those folk who hate living in the UK and who preach hatred to the people (and death to those living in the UK)* of the UK to stay in the UK. Throw them out and their sponging friends and families. * Freedom of speach my arse. totally agree chelstongull,those fortunate enough to be allowed to stay here should be made to sign a declaration,no crime,no treason,no terrorist backing, if they do put on their bike where they came from.But this country sadly isnt doing it,we mollycoddle the little darlings,even giving british citizenship to convicted murderers bless em Except most of these individuals and groups are made up of second or third generation Britons - where are you proposing to put them on a bike to, the NHS hospital they were born in? Inciting hatred and violence is already covered by UK law. Criticising UK foreign policy or UK Armed Services personnel sits uncomfortable with many, but that's what happens in a democracy. Deal with it I'm afraid - or join the BNP and live in the society they would create. |
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Post by loyalgull on Dec 12, 2010 20:35:45 GMT
if you had read what i put properly,i said those that gain entry here from another country,not people born within these shores,ie second and third generations
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Post by lambethgull on Dec 12, 2010 20:56:32 GMT
Can I ask the question......... Is violence against the state ever justified? I would argue yes it is. When the state forgets that it is there to serve the people and not push them back into serfdom. British people are now slaves to the Banks with Gov't supplying the muscle and the means of transferring the cash to them. To achieve this they have to keep the people down and scared to rise up against them. If Gov't pass laws that only serve to keep their masters in power at the expense of the people they should be removed by whatever means necessary, including violence against the state. The problem is that the Military and Police are used as arms of the state and not protectors of the people. Our Soldiers and Policemen should remember that they too are paying the price along with their families. They should be on the side of the people and tell their masters so. That would put the wind up the faceless Banksters robbing us blind and tell Gov't to remember who they serve! The answer is yes. Violence and riots usually occur when people feel deprived of a voice. I happen to agree with the student's stance, not just in relation to the fees, but the disproportionate cuts to University budgets and EMA. But the big issue is the betrayal by the Liberal Democrats and the outrageous way in which they whored themselves around university campuses before the election signing explicit pledges, whilst knowing full well that this would be unlikely to be able to deliver in a coalition (and the polls were pointing towards a coalition months before the election campaign proper even started). Even after the election they could and should have insisted this was deal-breaker when entering into negotiations with the Conservatives. Riots can and do lead to public good. The original Poll Tax riots of the 14th century did not initially succeed, but led to positive changes afterwards. The inner-city riots in the 1980s led to changes in policing, and the more recent race riots in the North of England highlighted issues which are now being addressed. Does this mean riots can always be justified or the students and their supporters were justified in the disorder they caused on 9 December? No, but maybe it's time our elected representatives realised it's them who serve us. It's certainly hard to imagine them taking much notice of Aaron Porter lighting candles on Victoria Embankment. Are the police being used as an arm of the state? Perhaps. They have a difficult job, and clearly cannot allow a situation where people are allowed to storm and smash up buildings and Parliament. They are right to say that they have a duty to balance the right to protest against the rights of others to go about their business unmolested. That said, some of the police do see themselves as above the law. There's a widely reported story today quoting the mother of Alfie Meadows, who sustained serious head injuries as a result of being hit on the head by a police truncheon. On arrival at Chelsea and Westminster Hospital police there told hospital staff that he should be taken to another hospital because police were being treated there. The BBC quotes a source from the hospital stating that a decision had been taken to treat "police and civilians" in different hospitals. Excuse me? The police are civilians. British police are not gendarmes or a paramiliatrary force. To do a job one needs first to know what that job is. |
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