merse
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Post by merse on Aug 12, 2008 2:52:26 GMT
 Speaking for myself.................my feeling is that there is a growing tendency to think that OUR club has a God given right to be romping away at the top of the league, to "win" and score goals at will in pre-season games that can't be "won" anyway as they are not competitive; and that somewhere along the line last season's campaign (after starting out with just 3 players inherited, all of whom have now been released) was- in words used on here, mark you - "made a pig's ear" of by the manager in the play offs. Reading his contribution to this thread, I would surmise that Sean is indignant at the tone of this somewhat niggardly and patronising attitude towards a manager who is professionally qualified and substantially funded by a committed board of directors....................and I do appreciate where he is coming from and share his impatience at those ( not professionally qualified) who just cannot or will not let last season go and let the guy get on with improving on last season's effort and hopefully enjoy watching him doing so. I'm not going to fall into the trap of forever raking over this difference of opinion, I'm quite happy to be in the minority; I am not abusing anyone on here, but I do know of some of the things that have lead to certain players departing this club that have never (and can't be, or shouldn't be) been made public and therefore have lead to the manager being on the end of much of this "he's inexperienced" or "he should have backed down" observation made by people who clearly don't have such knowledge. It's no secret that the departures of Rayner and Phillips have been used by a number of fans as ammunition when they accuse the manager of "a lack of experience" or a deficiency in his man management skills. Well they don't know the half of it and because all parties have quite correctly kept their counsel; they probably never will. From where I stand, and from what I know; Paul Buckle has developed a quite exceptional team spirit amongst the players at OUR club and part of that achievement has been done through actions which have brought criticism upon him from people who quite clearly do not know with what he has had to deal with and I personally feel he should be allowed to get on with the job for the whole of his contracted period without those people continuing to make such ill-informed observations. In closing, there was a club that WAS successful in last season's play-offs following elimination in the previous ones. They allowed their manager to patiently get on with further developing their challenge despite the scorn of some of their more critical fans and that club was Exeter City. Take heed!
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Post by daveshaw on Aug 12, 2008 4:44:02 GMT
Merse, this is not a witch hunt against Bucks. But fans rightly asking questions and stating their expectations. I agree, we are not privvy to inside knowledge and shouldn't be. We can only draw our comments from what we're told. However, leaving that aside, most here are expressing concern from team performance. Now that we can see with our own eyes and look at recent form. On both counts we are not doing that well.
So, we are making judgements from information available to us. After 12 games we can make an informed assessment of our seasons chances. It is early enough to do something about it. Any professional business will constantly review and measure itself against expected standards of performance. Where it is falling short it will identify and implement areas for change. Why should TU be any differrent?
I state again, this is NOT a witch hunt against Bucks.
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Post by mickyflash on Aug 12, 2008 11:51:12 GMT
Getting this post back on topic, I am very happy with what PB has done for our club since taking charge and am delighted with what he has achieved so far. I will continue to give him my FULL support throughout the season.
I don't think some people realise the mammoth task PB had last season to build a squad from scratch in very little time and considering we finished 3rd in the league, was the only team to challenge Aldershot all year and had a nice day out to wembley, I feel we OVER achieved last year. We can all appreciate how refreshing it has been to get quality players in this summer without the whole geographical debate.
I realise that nobody is seriously suggesting Buckle should go. and if certain people want to asses the situation in 12 games time then that is there prerogative, if we lose the next 4 games 6 nil, others may be re assessing the situation before the 12 game mark, the same people will be distinctively quiet if we are top of the league and 6 points clear.
As I have said previously, I did not go to the Histon game, and therefore do not have an informed opinion on how we will look this year, because of this I have read match reports with great interest.
Dave Shaw, not that I am knocking your argument, because essentially I agree Football is a results business, Their have been plenty of very nice men In charge who football clubs who has done everything right off the field that have lost their jobs because the results did not come. If this does happens to PB he certainly wont be the last man to fall at this hurdle. However, as you seem to have a very strong opinion on our manager an team performance since our draw last weekend I can only assume you were at the game?? If so I would be very interested to read your report on how you feel the game went?
You may, or may not of read I have my own concerns regarding our defence, but this however has only been formed based on what I have seen during pre season, and I have never suggested that PB is incapable of seeing the same inadequacy's as I do, In fact I think he does see them with his intentions to bring Brett Johnson into the squad. It has not been my intention to jump on any negativity bandwagon and I am indeed looking forward to the proper action tonight as it is impossible to really get a true feeling of the squad based on pre season friendlies, and even then I have only been to 3 of them!
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 12, 2008 12:44:03 GMT
What would Bucks say if he heard that people wanted to judge him after 12 games? At a guess :
I am confident in my ability and I am working hard. I'm confident in my players' ability and they are working hard. Please do judge us on results. Bring it on.
It's a fact of life that those that work their nuts off at anything have to suffer the whingeing and moaning of those that prefer to sit back and criticise.
I can fully understand Sean being p***ed off. He's put in a shed load of money and given up a lot of time to OUR club. His visits to Plainmoor probably leave him buzzing with enthusiasm as he is surrounded by positive doers all striving for what we all want them to strive for.
Then a quick look at the forums and you feel like slitting your wrists.
Sean, don't waste energy being negative about people who are negative. It gets you nowhere - it only makes things worse. You can tie yourself in knots being indignant at certain fans and their moaning. It will drain your positive energy and only serve to alienate you from fans who will claim you are suppressing their freedom of speech and that you only want to be surrounded by happy clappers and head nodders.
The current Board seems to have learned from others' mistakes and always accentuate the positive and turn a blind eye to the negative. It must be tough at times. A few of our gates last season must have made people think in private "What the hell do you want us to do to get more of you through the turnstiles?". But nobody ever said anything like that in public - a positive message was always put out. That is all the club can do - lead from the front with positivity and hope to win over some if not all of the moaners.
Sean, you are now effectively a representative of the club. So, tough as it may be, bite your tongue and don't rise to baiting negative posters. Actions speak louder than words - and most people are massively impressed by the action at Plainmoor in the last year or so.
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Post by daveshaw on Aug 12, 2008 15:42:29 GMT
I don't believe the posts asking questions are in any way negative. Jon, if you want to think that is knee jerking then fair enough. But what is the problem with setting standards to be measured by? How else do we assess how we're doing?
All businesses do the same.............dare i say it..........yeah.........even Seans. If his employees arn't cutting it i bet he gives them a cuddle, says never mind and let's them carry on without any guidance. Erm I think not! Get real. We need to assess our performance at all times and make adjustments as necessary.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 12, 2008 15:59:56 GMT
Jon, I don't think you or anybody else, could find a single fan, who is not over the moon, with the board we now have and the sponsors, of our club.
Everywhere you look you will see improvements after improvements, all fans know our club is now in the best hands possible. I also can fully understand how upset Sean was, but that does not mean that I feel he make, the correct response.
I also fully understand how the board, Sean, anyone working hard to take the club forward, would feel, it all they got was negative comments everywhere. We all know those that work hard for a boss, that we like to feel, we will get a pat on the back, when we do a good job.
As I have said I think this 12 games thing has been taken, far out of the context, with what it really was about. That was to judge the team and what we might expect this season, after the team has played 12 games, nothing more or or less, no talk of getting rid of Paul Buckle after 12 weeks, if we were not getting results.
There really has been one more very good point made, while Merse will disagree I know, but the fact that this is a result business. Not many will care that they can get a carvery at the club, If we are bottom of the table. Don't get me wrong I think all those additions to the match day experience has to be applauded.
It was one things talked about on here some time ago, all such things make match days more enjoyable. What really makes it special, is a good team performance and a win, that will always be the no1 thing a fan will go to a match for.
I don't think I would go as far as to label some posters as negative, or moaners, they care about the club as much as anybody else. I will just see them for now, as concerned supporters.
One other point Jon, is that those you see as moaners, will also be the ones who week by week feed the club their hard earned money and for that reason only, does give them some right to complain, If they don't feel happy, about what they have paid to watch.
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Post by harrogategull on Aug 12, 2008 16:06:56 GMT
Well think I will have my say on this, not sure if anybody wants to read but here is my view........
Paul Buckle is the manager contracted for this season and should be given the full support of all Torquay United fans. I believe that the time to judge is next May when the season has been decided, not now, not in 12 games and not even at Xmas. There is no reason to make a judgment at any point unless barring an absolute disaster of a season (and that means relegation positions!).
Why, because i fail to see how a change of manager would improve our promotion chances, how many teams have changed manager during a season and still gained promotion, none that immediately spring to mind but I am sure i could be proved wrong. Secondly, promotion from this and most leagues is won by post Xmas form and this is why we failed last year, our end of season form was poor. PB tried to change this for the play-offs but unfortunately it did not come off, but at least he recognized that something had to change if we were to gain any success from the play offs. Exeter by comparison had an indifferent first half of the season (mid table) but came good after Xmas and put a tremendous run together which resulted in a successful play off campaign and promotion. They must have been one of the most in form teams over the last 20 games.
We got off to a flying start last season but faded away but it is a marathon not a sprint and I would not be concerned that if this season we are little of the pace during the early part of the season, as we have the backroom support, players and manager to succeed! Judgement day should be next May!
Up the Gulls!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 12, 2008 16:16:22 GMT
harrogategull, very good post and some excellent points made and yes we love to read your views, all posters views are valuable to the forum, even if we did not agree with them ;D
not that I disagree with your views
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AR10
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Torquay Fans Forum Manager
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Post by AR10 on Aug 12, 2008 16:19:44 GMT
I'm sure the board of directors when they took over the club put a 5 year stratergy in place of where they would like to be within this time & I would imagine gaining promotion back to the league within 3 seasons would be a realistic aim. Last season (season 1) would have been a consolidation season to find our way in a tough league & hand on heart I think we did over achieve which has put us on a good financial footing for this season, this season (season 2) will have been a push for the play-offs & take our chances in that lottery & next season (Season 3) will have been a push for automatic promotion, season 4 again a consolidation back in the league avoiding relegation & season 5 a push for the play-offs.
Paul Buckle has to be given to the end of season 3 at least, we have to give him a chance to build a good strong squad.
Paul must be given our full support regardless of the results & style of play.
We must remember we are lucky we are still in existance.
We will be back in the league 1 day but we must remain patient & always remember that good things come to those that wait.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 12, 2008 16:33:20 GMT
How can anyone fathered by me, make such a sensible post ;D ;D
anyway that was a great post Ant.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 12, 2008 16:35:13 GMT
To the two Daves.
The thrust of my post was that Sean should not get drawn into arguing with people who look on the negative side all the time. Some would argue that pondering what we should do when the season collapses into abject failure - on the back of a draw away to the side that finished seventh last season - is looking on the negative side.
I did say that Bucks would probably be quite happy to be judged on results.
To give a positive spin, who thinks Bucks should get a pay rise if we win the next twelve games in a row?
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Post by daveshaw on Aug 12, 2008 16:39:26 GMT
Nobody is suggesting a change of management.
Good things come to those who wait?.............sorry mate , but i nearly fell off my chair laughing at that one. Bucks is judged on results, no more no less. The next game is the result we're waiting for. And then the one after that.......etc.
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merse
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Post by merse on Aug 12, 2008 16:50:31 GMT
To give a positive spin, who thinks Bucks should get a pay rise if we win the next twelve games in a row? I'm sure he would settle for that over the dreaded "Vote of Confidence" every manager must fear! ;D |
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Post by chrish on Aug 12, 2008 20:18:30 GMT
Is there really a need to emphasise each word you want to stress by plonking it in a BOLD typeface? Its not fecking Jackanory for the love of god.
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merse
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Post by merse on Aug 12, 2008 21:00:01 GMT
Is there really a need to emphasise each word you want to stress by plonking it in a BOLD typeface? Its not fecking Jackanory for the love of god. Well it might as well be for some who cannot grasp the salient points. If you were to stop prattling away on your keyboard during a match you might get the gist more yourself  |
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Speaking for myself.................my feeling is that there is a growing tendency to think that OUR club has a God given right to be romping away at the top of the league, to "win" and score goals at will in pre-season games that can't be "won" anyway as they are not competitive; and that somewhere along the line last season's campaign (after starting out with just 3 players inherited, all of whom have now been released) was- in words used on here, mark you - "made a pig's ear" of by the manager in the play offs.
