Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2008 7:56:21 GMT
At the start of any football season, some teams will not perform or get the results, there were expected to get. It never takes too long for heads to be called for and sackings soon to follow, this is after all a results game and there are no prizes for losers.
We do have a young manager at our club, one who has put his hands up and admitted his mistakes that he made last season. No one could not really expect mistakes not to be made, it was after all his first year as a manager. I had felt (as discussed with Merse on here) that Colin Lee should have played more of a role, with Paul last season.
You would not let a new inexperienced employee , in any job, run everything on their own and I believe, if from the start of last season, the fans were told that both Colin and Paul, were both working together as joint managers, we may have seen a different end to our season.
So we move on to the start of Paul's second season as the manager, he has done well bringing in new players to the club and he knows better than everyone what is expected of him and the team. We really on the first day of the season, should have the belieth, that Paul will take the club to promotion, or the play offs at least, we should not have any need now, to start putting time limits on him as the manager.
He will want success as much as any fan, his whole football career will depend on him getting results and he would be well aware that failure to do so, would soon be the end of any plans he may have to manager higher.
Lets give him and the club our full support, lets not start calling for heads to roll, if we do get the results we want over the first part of the season. The board will know, if it was not working, they will decide if Paul can pull it off or not.
We all want this to be our season, even more so knowing that Exeter are back in the league and we are still here in the BSP. To some we may seem now that we are the lowest team league wise in Devon, while that is true, we must remember how long it took Exeter to get back to the league.
Managers will always be hero's one minute and villains the next in fans eyes, Paul and the club needs all fans to give him the time he needs to be our hero.
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Post by daveshaw on Aug 9, 2008 9:22:45 GMT
Dave,
I can't say i wholly disagree with you. But, if the mistakes of last season repeat themselves then it would be better to deal with it than ignore the problem and hope it gets better. We had that approach under Bateson when he often fiddled while plainmoor burned.
I am 100% behind the manager and the players but will want action taken if we don't perform to acceptable standards. By that i mean averaging 2 points a game. That will at least guarantee a playoff spot with a good chance of automatic promotion.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2008 9:34:52 GMT
Dave, there could always come a time, when fans may well feel that the club would need to act and take action. As I said I have faith that the board would know if such a time came.
I would also hope that Paul himself would know and that for the good of the team and club, he would make the correct decisions, over his position at the club.
My real point is that now we do not know, what position league wise, the team will be in two months from now, so I see no point in starting to even consider any action I would want to see happen, as regards Paul's position.
Rest assured if results do not come. because of poor team selection, poor substitutions, poor tactic's I will be the first to voice my views. We simply for now have to see how things unfold, have the faith in those who's jobs it is to get the best from the team and take our club forward. Lets worry only when we have something to worry about.
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merse
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Post by merse on Aug 9, 2008 10:26:11 GMT
Lets worry only when we have something to worry about.  Quite, there is nothing to worry about. Last season was last season, and last season whilst not the ultimate success we might have wanted; was not a failure either. Leagues are a competition that only a minimal minority can win or achieve promotion. The chances of relegation are twice the ratio of promotion and in reality there must be at least half a dozen clubs with equal potential and equal infrastructure to achieve just what we wish for OUR club. Then there will be one or two who will be dark horse surprises....................there always are in sport. So when a club "fails" to win promotion it is imperative that the directorate take a rational overview of the situation and pay equal heed as to whether the club is actually moving forward, standing still or slipping backwards. Only if it is the latter should the manager's position be in question and if the club is deemed to be standing still then all parties need to get round the table and investigate ways of regaining that forward motion. From personal experience I don't like it when a perfectly professional, honest and competent manager is "pressured" out of his job through outside influences. I saw that with my own eyes with Mike Green and it disgusted me and led me to question my own future in the sport and ultimately led me to conclude that I would leave it under my own volition rather than at the whim of others. |
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Post by daveshaw on Aug 9, 2008 10:45:52 GMT
Merse,
Only results count. PB has talent, money, his chosen players and the support of the Board and fans. This is a ruthless business. We persevered with Wes, McFarland and Leroy when it would have made more sense to move on. I agree it is rational to take an overview of where the club is in relation to the master plan. But as part of that, tough decisions have to be made not shyed(?) away from.
May greatest wish is for PB and the boys to storm this league. Then i suppose this conversation will be void...................until next season.
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merse
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Post by merse on Aug 9, 2008 11:02:18 GMT
I see where you're coming drom Dave (S) but the worse scenario is change for change sake. Ultimately, the most successful clubs are the ones with continuity of management and a sense of purpose. Someone has to keep a grasp of reality when all about them are screaming and shouting, and that "someone" needs to be the Chairman. I've said it before and I'll say it again: The most important relationship at a football club is that between manager and chairman. If we were to have changed our manager this summer merely because last season didn't pan out as we would have liked, that would have been a backward step;as indeed would changing the manager in the middle of this season unless things had gone spectacularly awry.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2008 11:20:08 GMT
Dave, in the week Merse, when he saw his argument slipping away ;D ;D he asked what was the point going back over old ground. But as it was a mistake I felt Paul had made, it was perfectly fine to do so.
I fully understand where you are coming from, when Bateson run the club. He left everything to the last second and always seemed to get out of jail, by the skin of his teeth.
I can not really see how you can make comparisons, to the events under Bateson, this board has shown it has ambition and will I feel act sooner rather than later, if it feels action needs to be taken
That is why I have the confidence and feel I need not worry, that those at the top will make the correct decisions, but only when there is a real need to do so.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Aug 9, 2008 12:34:34 GMT
I totally agree with Merse's take on this. You can't have a knee-jerk reaction to things that happen.
The club must be patient and understanding that the course of progress never runs smooth.
Last season WAS a success, and was very nearly a great success. Without a couple of dodgy reffing decisions, we would have got promotion.
IF we ever get to a point where the powers that be feel Bucks has lost the plot, then they will act. They must not over-react every time things go wrong.
Having Colin Lee as Chief Exec will help to have a professional view of how things are really going. He is far better placed to judge whether a manager has or has not lost the plot than any fan or than an Alex Rowe or a Mike Bateson.
The only Chairman we've had with a wealth of football experience was Chris Roberts. Having played in the European Cup and for England under 21s, he had a real insight into managers. That experience allowed him to over-rule Ian Atkins when he thought we needed a new left back and targeted Joe Jacobson. It also allowed him to see that Atkins was useless and replace him with the Lubos Kubik / Richard Hancox dream team.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2008 16:47:11 GMT
I bet that Dave Shaw has already phoned Plainmoor and asked how much longer we need to give Buckle  Its never going to be easy to get out of the league we are in but we know the club and those running it will do there very best. |
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Post by daveshaw on Aug 9, 2008 17:37:00 GMT
;D Not exactly DG no. Obviously it's too early to call our season. But, the pressure is on from the off as it should be in a results oriented competition.
We will have played 12 games by the end of september. I believe that would be an appropriate time to take stock and make a judgement based on results.
I will be looking for around 24 points on the board and a healthy league position. I don't think that is unreasonable. We have let 2 points go today that i hope won't come back to haunt us later on.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2008 17:52:02 GMT
Dave Shaw, I Think 12 games should be enough to see how things are going, to be fair you say you would want an average of two points a game, so a win on Tuesday, keeps the average points total on track.
As I have said if we are not making the progress we all think we should by the end of the 12 games, then I will be standing next to you, looking for answers from the club. I still would not be looking to get Buckle replaced at that still early part of the season.
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Post by andygulls on Aug 9, 2008 18:01:16 GMT
;D Not exactly DG no. Obviously it's too early to call our season. But, the pressure is on from the off as it should be in a results oriented competition. We will have played 12 games by the end of september. I believe that would be an appropriate time to take stock and make a judgement based on results. I will be looking for around 24 points on the board and a healthy league position. I don't think that is unreasonable. We have let 2 points go today that i hope won't come back to haunt us later on. Great to have you around Dave- Hope things are going well for you mate. Not the bet of starts but no need to panic yet eh! But we do need to get the forwards scoring and soon. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2008 18:14:48 GMT
Andy mate, its going to be in 12 games time, me saying to you, I told you so, or me having to concede that all your fears and worries were completely justified. The good news is, that if you are correct in your views, I will put my hand up and say I got it wrong.
As you would expect, that will only happen when we get to a point further into the season. At least we can smile and keep it all good natured on here, its no good fans going over the top with each other, just because we see things differently.
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Post by andygulls on Aug 9, 2008 19:28:57 GMT
Andy mate, its going to me in 12 games time, saying to you, i told you so, or me having to concede that all your fears and worries were completely justified. The good news is, that if you are correct in your views, I will put my hand up and say I got it wrong. As you would expect, that will only happen when we get to a point further into the season. At least we can smile and keep it all good natured on here, its no good fans going over the top with each other, just because we see things differently. Dave I hope you are right and I am wrong ;D ;D |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 9, 2008 19:31:25 GMT
So do I Andy, if only because I won't need to grovel to you ;D
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Quite, there is nothing to worry about.
