jack
TFF member
Posts: 24
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Post by jack on Aug 10, 2008 16:43:29 GMT
Hmmmmm. We may have got promoted last season had not the manager made a blazing howler in the second leg of the play offs when he tried to "out" tactic Tisdale and failed miserably by playing a ludicrously defensive formation. Early days but the jury is clearly still out this season. Unimpressive in the friendlies where we did not look like scoring and we continued that yesterday by all accounts. We look a bit short up front and have signed far too many midfielders by the looks of it.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2008 16:49:49 GMT
Jack, Buckle did indeed make a pigs ear of the play offs and many other mistakes during the season and as I have said on here, let his personality get in the way at times.
I would hope that he has learned from last season and we will not see those same mistakes again. I believe we have enough good players in the side and the goals will come.
Having just watched Man U play, I wonder if Sir Alex is worried none of his players could find the net today. If the goals do not come, I'm sure the club will look at things again and take what action is needed.
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Post by sean01 on Aug 10, 2008 17:10:26 GMT
Let me just give you this from the horses mouth, Paul Buckle is under a contract with TUFC and at this club there will be no reason to terminate/cancel/sack our manager. What most of you do not see is the commitment that Paul shows not only to the club but the fans. On several occations when our families have been out together TUFC fans will always approach him and ask him questions, Paul always gives them an enthusatic reply and is keen to hear their thoughts. I can assure there is no one with more dedication to this club then Paul. What upsets us the most is the negative rubbish. This is reality check time. we are in this position due to the miss management of old incumbants. So lets not talk about 12 games and the board getting nervous. The board is fully behind Paul and honour the contract. Name me three better managers then Paul Buckle. Get off his back and put your energy into supporting this exciting team he has put together with a tight budget.
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Dave
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Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2008 17:17:02 GMT
You will see by reading this thread title Sean, that at this forum we are indeed making the point that fans should be backing Paul Buckle and not to start getting worried if results have not gone the way they would hope.
I think its fair to see were we are in 12 games time and If fans then feel that they have concerns, that they should be able to voice them. If that is the case, then I will let fans have their say, it is after all their club as well.
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Post by northyorkshiregull on Aug 10, 2008 18:01:45 GMT
So if we hav'nt got 24 points in 12 games time some people think we should remove the manager!i am sure exeter or aldershot were not in that position last season after 12 games.
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Post by sean01 on Aug 10, 2008 18:28:18 GMT
Northyorkshire, clearly the world has gone mad. 12 matches what an insult to everyone at TUFC who have put time and money into turning this club around.
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Dave
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Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2008 18:28:26 GMT
So if we hav'nt got 24 points in 12 games time some people think we should remove the manager!i am sure exeter or aldershot were not in that position last season after 12 games. Maybe you would like to quote a post on this forum, that states it wants the manager sacked after 12 games, Have you made your post on the correct forum?
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2008 18:33:09 GMT
Northyorkshire, clearly the world has gone mad. 12 matches what an insult to everyone at TUFC who have put time and money into turning this club around. Why make this into something it is not Sean, some feel that after 12 games have been played, they will get a better Idea as to how the team will fair this year. Its true some seem over concerned, I think you will agree that I for one have done my part, to try and put those fears to bed. I will review my thoughts after 12 games ;D ;D
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merse
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Posts: 2,684
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Post by merse on Aug 10, 2008 18:58:38 GMT
The point Sean is making (although I expect it to be lost on many people on here) is there is far more to managing a football club than the points return over a few games. To back that point up, not so long ago we had a much lauded "manager" who although he achieved promotion through his good coaching wasn't in fact managing the club correctly at all, to the extent that both he and the playing squad were wholly inadequate for the next level with the disastrous consequences that the decline that set in ultimately took us out of the Football League and into the BSP. There is far more to management than merely accumulating points, there is identification of need, location and appointment of fellow staff; ditto as regards players, appreciation of the science and application of ancillary support methods for the players...............in fact a whole host of things covered on the various FIFA licence courses that many posters on here have never even taken into consideration and wouldn't have an earthly as to how to retain that knowledge and information in their heads as they naively relate managing a professional football club with running a local parks team. In my opinion................yes it is insulting and demeaning to be talking of twelve game assessments!
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Dave
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Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2008 19:10:55 GMT
Merse said "it is insulting and demeaning to be talking of twelve game assessments"
Tell me Merse, is it not insulting and demeaning to post on a forum, about any player that the club has chosen to play for the club, about his worth or ability to even play football.
I only asked as I would just like to know, just what is OK and what is not OK, to post on a forum.
You will know I have made my views known on, why we should back the club and manager, but you see some are correct, when they say this is all about results and I will once again state, I see nothing wrong seeing where we are after 12 games.
No, that will not be the time to ask for Buckle to go and we have heard it from the club, in days gone past, how they will support their manager. The truth is all clubs will, unless they do not get the results they expect, that is always the bottom line.
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merse
TFF member
Posts: 2,684
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Post by merse on Aug 10, 2008 19:24:44 GMT
As I said a lot of what I posted would be lost on some. Please go back and read my post again and see if you now understand it. The thought process that "points are the bottom line" if used out of context, leads to all sorts of wrong decision making, waste of resources; failure to apply a previously identified business plan and a total expose of one's own decision and selection skills. To claim Bucks made a "pig's ear" of the play offs is scandalous............we lost a semi final, we failed to win the play offs - as did three of the other four managers in case you hadn't noticed! The play offs are a quick fire knockout competition that eliminates 75% of the participants. That doesn't make their managers contenders for any "PIg's Ear" award!
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Dave
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Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2008 19:39:07 GMT
I fully understood what you said Merse, strange you did not choose to comment on remarks about being insulting and demeaning, to players at the club.
You see if you think a player is a waste of space, then you have to level criticism at the manager who brought him to the club. If the club appoint a manager, who fails to take the team in the direction they want it to go, then you have to aim criticism at then, for hiring him.
You really do need to try and rethink not only your views on Leroy but also the big difference he had to work under. One man on his own and don't believe all that talk from Bateson,(thats how Leroy wants it)
No real budget, no real support from the chairman and owner, still he gets the team promoted. Now having a weaker team, lost DG, no money to get the players needed to even make a half decent challenge. So who really could expect anything but to come back down again.
You will have to go along way Merse to find anyone who does not feel, that Paul blew our play off games, like I say Praise where it is due, but lets not start having to pretend mistakes never happened.
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Dave
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Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2008 20:08:19 GMT
My final post on this thread is to Sean.
Sean on this forum you are a member, the same as all other members, as like them you are free to express your views.
However, you will always be seen as a part of the club, by the members on here. While I can fully understand your disappointment, in reading what seems negative and criticizing remarks made by members, I do feel you have wasted a golden opportunity tonight.
As some one from the club, I feel it would have been far better to try and suppress and fears and worries the fans may have. Sadly the tone of your post, is a sure fire way to alienate fans even more from the club.
Sorry but that is my view. Dave R
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Post by andygulls on Aug 10, 2008 21:23:07 GMT
Northyorkshire, clearly the world has gone mad. 12 matches what an insult to everyone at TUFC who have put time and money into turning this club around. Surely the opinions formed would be based on the total number of games played last season as well as the first 12 games of this season. That would I think take us to 71 games in total (including cup trophy and shield). Of course it is too early to panic and I think we will know far more about just how good a manager PB is after the closure of the January transfer window 2009. We have a useful benchmark to compare PB with. Paul Tisdale took over at City in June 2006 his record at the end of 2 seasons was P108 W52 (48%) D 29 (27%) L27 (25%) and he managed the club to promotion, despite the fans not being entirely happy with him and his tactics. If PB can match that success then all will be happy. But just because there is merit in being patient, does not mean that we should be prevented from discussing what some may see as shortcomings in the make up of the squad or in team selection or in substitutions or anything else. This is a forum and that is what the damn board is here for. Paul Buckles commitment is to be applauded and the work carried out by all involved at the club behind the scenes is to be praised but at the end of the day it all counts not a jot without success on the field of play for that is the yardstick by which comparisons will be made and judgments formed and in my view rightly so. Now like Merse I do not rate Benyon as a conference standard forward. I assume there is a reason that PB decided to start him on Saturday. I do not know what the reason was, but it does cause me to question the decision. Is there any harm in that? The playoffs, like others I think PB got it wrong, but I'll cut him some slack for he was a first year manager with a lack of depth in the squad. In my view it is certainly not scandalous to proffer the observation that he could have done better. Forums are all about expressing opinions. Thank the Lord that we will all have different ones after all nobody is perfect eh!
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Dave
TFF member
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2008 21:25:46 GMT
Thank you Andy very well put.
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