West Ham v Millwall

After all the news on the TV about the West Ham v Millwall match, I really should have expected what waited for me in Yeovil today. My mind on the way to Weymouth was filled with thoughts about the forum and only changed to Weymouth Football Club when I saw the roadside sign. It informed those who may be interested that a car hand wash could be obtained at the stadium, it was on for the whole day, I did wonder if was to help raise much needed funds for Weymouth Town.

I had forgotten all that by the time I got to Dorchester and my mind was back thinking about the forum( yes I know I need to get a life) still unaware of what was to happen in Yeovil. I soon found out as I walked into Miles Hardware in Yeovil and was greeted by Tom Miles; you may have read about him on the forum before.

He firmly believes all football fans are violent and dangerous, but he has never ever been to one game before. Sad thing was he had been waiting all morning for me to turn up and must have gone through in his head, just what he was going to say to me. He let go with both barrels and really believed he could now win his argument with me once and for all that has now lasted for six years,

I did tell him that most football fans were disgusted by what went on and once again also remedied him about how the football fans of TUFC and members of this forum, have shown real kindness and thoughtfulness and are no way like any people parading as fans, he saw on the TV news.

I even tried to change the subject to shut him up, bringing up fox hunting as he is a young farmer and supports fox hunting, my claims that his sort were just barbaric and cruel, only saw Tom reply that the fox really does enjoy the hunt, if he did not he would not join in, he told me. I should point out what Tom and I say to each other is all done in fun and while it drives his mother mad who works in the shop, Tom and I enjoy our banter.

The world of firms etc is not one I know and anyway I hate violence and have never understood it or the need for it. Merse has called me naive before, but on so many things he is probably correct and that is due to where I live and also the way I live my life. In tonight’s HE the front page story is about a fight that took place in Church Street Paignton at 1am, yes violence goes on here as well, but I really can’t remember the last time I witnessed any, it has to be over ten years ago.

I’m sure if I did spend more time around Torquay harbour I would see much more, but I would rather not, as I said I hate violence and keep away from the places its more likely to happen.

We can only base our feelings and views on our own life’s experiences and who we are as people will play a big part. That is why I can’t understand the mentality of those who like to hurt and even kill other people. I can’t even begin the process because my life is only about treating people nicely and helping if I can.

I expect there are people who could give us all sorts of reasons why certain people are just thugs, why they seem to enjoy inflicting pain on others, we may get told its do with how they were brought up, where they lived and how maybe they had to be tough to even survive where they grew up

That sure was not the case for me growing up in Newton Abbot, my childhood was just that, a childhood, no real issues to deal with, nothing to really fear, just the local policeman. When I joined the Navy at 15 years old, I never gave a thought to the sort of boys I was soon going to be living with, I thought all boys were just the same as I was, but I soon learned the hard way that was not really true.

From Milber Primary School to Highweek school for boys To HMS Ganges at Shotly gate near Ipswich, was maybe the wrong thing for a boy who only a few days before he left to go there, was still climbing trees.

But now I was in a camp with 1500 boys the same age as me and for the first time in my life I was in contact with boys from London, Liverpool and Manchester. My first friend at Ganges was a boy from London by the name of Wallace; I could not believe it when he showed me his arms. They were covered in scares from Knife fights and he was able to recall each fight that went with the scare. The only knife I ever had as a kid was a penknife and only ever used to carve I love Julie on some tree bark.

I soon saw first hand that some boys from Liverpool loved fighting and had a nasty side to them, but they were never as bad as Tim Carr from Manchester. This thug ruled our Mess we lived in, 45 boys all shit scared of him. He would make you swing from the iron bean across the ceiling for an hour singing tic toc I’m a C***, pity those who could not hold on and let go, the beatings were just to bad to watch.

Every single night he would walk up to everyone’s bed one at a time and wish them goodnight with a fist in their face and I think we all knew we had to find an end and put a stop to him once and for all.

One night while he was up at the bowling alley, we moved his bed 800 yards to the middle of the sports field, when he retuned he went mad and demanded to know where his bed was. Soon he had the nearest boy to him and started beating him up and that was our que to all pile in and sort him out once and for all. He knew after that if he just touched even one of us, we would all together give him what we did before.

This was not the way I would have wanted to see it sorted, it was just using violence to beat violence, but I suppose in this case it did work, I also found that there were times I had to fight even when It went against who I was, but I did learn very quickly in such a place, that you must not allow yourself to get pushed around, or else others would see it happening and do the same. The other lesson was never try and be the one to push your weight around, as some one would notice and just love to put you down.

Hard and sharp lessons for someone who lived in what was only really a very small town in Devon and while I understand that there will be times when violence has to be used, I still never will understand pure mindless violence and could never accept there could ever be any good reason for it.

Adam - I'm not "blinded by my love for the club" as you put it.

West Ham should be dealt with and punished for the 3 pitch invasions that occurred IN the ground.
Inadequate stewarding / lack of police INSIDE the ground would have certainly been a factor, and I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THEM BEING GIVEN A HEFTY FINE FOR THIS.

As I've said before WHUFC cannot be held responsible for events OUTSIDE in the surrounding areas - THAT is the job for the police.
The police on this occasion under estimated the requirements of the fixture badly - and sadly, they were caught out and overwhelmed with the volumes of TICKETLESS THUGS (NOT FANS) that made the journey to E13.

Cast your mind back some years ( if you were going to Plainmoor then, I don't know), when Wolves visited the bay for an evening game in Division 4 and, subsequently smashed up most of Torquay town centre.

Are you suggesting that TUFC should have "carried the can" for events that night?

I think not mate!

Torquay probably did everything in their power (and perhaps budget) to prevent any trouble INSIDE the ground, but sadly, they were ultimately powerless to resist the sheer numbers of morons who decided to invade the pitch and strike / kick out at the Torquay players, from the perimeter of the pitch that night.

The police were also caught "on the hop", as the drunken Wolves fans went on an orgy of vandalism and violence in (what was to them) "a sleepy little seaside resort".

With regards to the club or indeed the fans knowing the identities of these lobotomised retards out in the streets of Upton Park, YOU ARE RIGHT, they are known - probably due to the fact that they already have banning orders against them (that being the reason for them being outside, with no ticket).

Police intelligence will know them too - and in some cases, they would have been tracked on camera from their homes to see if they've got the brains (or lack of) to break an order already placed on them, and recorded on CCTV for prosecution purposes (they think they've got away with it, but soon the police will be raiding their homes in the early hours, and whisking them away to the courts).

MOST of the crowd inside (not all, I grant you) would have been TRUE FANS of the 2 clubs......many more true fans would have stayed at home.
However, the idiots that invaded the pitch, probably, in the main, either weren't true fans OR were fans that got swept up in the emotions of the fixture, and stupidly wanted to gloat and goad the Millwall contingent.

Thanks to CCTV in the ground, they'll all live to regret their infantile behaviour and actions - WHUFC WILL BAN THEM FOR LIFE - and I mean "life"...........not the "indefinite" bans I've heard that Millwall are threatening for their part in the chaos!
Their Saturdays will involve reporting to police stations at certain times and having excusion zones imposed on them (ie. banned from being within 5 miles of the stadium whilst a game is on) from now on.

AND GOOD RIDDANCE TO THE LOT OF THEM!


Finally,with regards to your stance on whistle blowing any thugs that TUFC may have - I'm sure you won't be required to do so.
No doubt, the club already know the "faces"..........lets be honest, they're not hard to pick out, are they?!!.
They're the ones that turn up "once in a blue moon" at an away game that requires some Devon "posturing" towards the other fans wearing their "special labelled" clothes (you know the brands I'm talking about) that mummy bought them for christmas!


By the way, you don't fool any of us with that fork........
KEEP OFF THE BLOODY PITCH!!

Oh dear Adam!!

ONE MINUTE YOU'RE CONDEMNING VIOLENCE, NEXT YOU'RE ADVOCATING IT!!

Touche!!

Don't forget those smilies aussie ;D

Curator of the MCG, next?

Merse, I concede that Arsenal and Man U have much larger gates than West Ham so their figures may be distorted, but Leeds , Cardiff, Sunderland, Spurs, Birmingham City, Wolves etc. don't.......and yet they all have similar statistics to those quoted for West Ham (and Millwall).

If, for example, you look at banning orders (taking into account average home attendances) then West Ham's 39 is completely dwarfed by Grimsby's 47 and Barnsley's 58, Shrewsbury's 31, Wrexham's 36 or indeed Argyle's 48!

Disorder in football is still a widespread problem (albeit, a vast improvement on 25 years ago or so). It happens at all levels of the game (I've seen some fairly nasty abuse come from AFC Hornchurch muppets in my time) and in all areas of the country - not just London or its East End.

Tuesday night was horrific. We do not regularly see scenes like that in this country these days - let's hope we don't have to witness anything like it again.