Rob
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Favourite Player: Asa Hall
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Post by Rob on Aug 25, 2009 21:03:20 GMT
Good to see West Ham stuffing them in extra time. Nasty scenes there tonight. West Ham fans not exactly well behaved either with 2 pitch invasions.
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Post by chrish on Aug 25, 2009 21:19:07 GMT
Two nasty teams supported by even nastier "fans". I bet the Football Factory/Green Street disciples will be knee deep in Kleenex by now*.
* Paul, rest assured, I will pay royalties for that line.
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Dave
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Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2009 21:22:47 GMT
I have not seen any news on this yet, but its sad to think we still have such problems in football. I think with these two teams is just more a case of the history between them. I just hope no one has been badly injured if it got that bad, so glad I support little old TUFC  |
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Post by chrish on Aug 25, 2009 21:27:02 GMT
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Post by crooky on Aug 25, 2009 21:27:31 GMT
At times like this I wish I was a seat repair man in east London....I'd make a bloody fortune! ;D
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2009 21:34:48 GMT
That report is so very sad and disgusting, I have never liked violence and have never been unable to understand it, how anyone can want to hurt another human being is beyond me. Its time in this country to dish out some real punishment to those who fully deserve it, forget all this PC rubbish. I heard on the news on BBC radio two today, how are streets are out of control with gangs now ruling them, surly something can be done, it really was not like this when I was young. |
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Post by stuartB on Aug 25, 2009 21:42:22 GMT
That report is so very sad and disgusting, I have never liked violence and have never been unable to understand it, how anyone can want to hurt another human being is beyond me. Its time in this country to dish out some real punishment to those who fully deserve it, forget all this PC rubbish. I heard on the news on BBC radio two today, how are streets are out of control with gangs now ruling them, surly something can be done, it really was not like this when I was young. when you were young, you all went to football with flat caps and rattles, smoking woodbine!! ;D My generation had doc martins and donkey jackets |
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merse
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Posts: 2,684
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Post by merse on Aug 26, 2009 3:31:50 GMT
 My heart always sinks whenever I am at a youth football event, beach outing or even in a pub and I spot a Chavvie Wet 'Amster or Millwall type in my presence..................... ............................. yer average Millwall or West Ham fan ~ ignorant, stupid, racist and bloody dangerous! OK let's substitute "yer average" for far too many.....................thousands of them in fact; and whilst we're at it, I DID quantify the "Chavvie" ones. Of course there are good fans but then then again once more we have been "reliably informed" that I am encapsulating ALL West Ham and Millwall fans by those who read what they chose to interpret rather than what is written. I don't apologise however for suggesting that ALL the fans of these clubs take the punishment for the continuing and never ending animosity between two communities that has no place in sport whatsoever. Belfast Celtic were banned from ALL football for perpetuating "non football" antipathy towards other football fans and so it should be for these combatants, otherwise the problem will never be resolved and the stupidity of the PAST EIGHTY YEARS will just carry on and on. Stupid throw away comments heard on local (and possibly national) TV last night relating to "these games should be played behind closed doors" and "it's West 'am 'n Miwwaw innit, woddo vey expect?" only serve to emphasize the inherent ignorance and futility of the combatants and their apologists amongst the community. What next ..................."they're black/Paki/Kosovan aren't they, what do they expect?" Do we patronise them and say "they come form the East End don't they, what else do you expect?" RJC's point about the outer London sink estate areas that harbour the nasty, racist and bigoted element of the Chelsea support is valid indeed................(for such areas do harbour alarmingly high percentages of the bigoted and intolerant) as is his point about the (let's say) "posher" areas to where some of the "Scallies Made Good" have managed to move to.....................the type no doubt like the ones who's mock Tudor Mansion I saw in Chigwell last week has been painted in Dayglo' Pink instead of the accepted white infilling of the black timbers. There's several a former CGFC participant who will testify to the nasty racist example of the "Windsor Chav" we once had the embarrassment of including in our football team. WE dealt with him by ostracising him and deleting him from our list of players and West Ham United could do a lot more to eradicate the disturbingly large percentage of their support that express themselves in the way they do..................for certain they haven't tried as hard as Millwall (to the effect of halving their average support) have. There's a very real message to my call to ban both clubs sine die, and the message is "if you want to kill a cancer, you have to cut it out".................but how much do the rest of football really want to cut this nonsense out? Thank you for not being offended Sallie, I didn't for one moment wish to offend you. I just wish the football club you support would be more pro-active and stand up to these bigots and perpetrators of violence.
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Post by romfordkev on Aug 26, 2009 7:14:26 GMT
I don't think Sallie and I can be included in those categories - and West Ham has always been our "other" team.
Actually, I'm wrong in saying that because for Sal (since meeting me) TORQUAY has been her "other" allegiance, and the "Hammers" her first choice side.
From 1989 - 1996, whilst bored with the football on offer at Torquay, I made regular trips to watch higher level league football at Upton Park.
The first 2 seasons were from my home in Devon - mostly "commuting" on the National Express 501 service, then on finding a job up here in Essex, they became my "local" side.
I've been to West Ham v Millwall fixtures in the past, and although they've promised to ignite on regular occasions( based on their mutual hatred of one another), I've never seen them reach the sickening levels of last night's events.
Whilst watching the pictures on Sky last night, I couldn't believe how naive the presenters were.
One seemed amazed at the thought that the trouble was pre-meditated and had been arranged......
Wake up!!..... These hooligans have been texting and emailing each other to meet up for a "ruck" for years now - that (sadly) is nothing new at all.
I don't for one moment think that everyone involved in last night's scenes were fans of West Ham or Millwall though.
And don't for a second think I'm trying to dismiss anyone's involvment - it's blatantly obvious that both sets of fans are guilty as charged.
Other elements would have probably been involved - and would have added "fuel to the fire" under the guise of a fan of one of the two teams.
It beggars belief that the "lunatic fringe" at rival London clubs think nothing of "tagging along" to fixtures like this, creating havoc and then slipping away, back to their own clubs, leaving the 2 clubs involved to face the consequences - while they boast of their "heroic" exploits on "enemy territory" in their local boozers.
I predict that both clubs could (and frankly should) be punished extremely severely for the trouble that erupted, both inside and outside the ground - huge fines or even expulsion from competitions could be incurred.
Any fans that are prosecuted over this MUST receive LIFE BANS....not 5 years or even 10 years.....FOR LIFE!
And don't forget, those pictures on Sky will be viewed all around the world........
You can kiss goodbye to any World Cup bid after that's been viewed by FIFA!
All in all, a very sad night for English football.
Frankly, I'm disgusted and embarrassed that West Ham - a club with a great history, and for many years dubbed "The Academy of Football" - have been involved in dragging our beautiful game into the gutter once more.
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Post by westhamsallie on Aug 26, 2009 7:54:01 GMT
yer average Millwall or West Ham fan ~ ignorant, stupid, racist and bloody dangerous! Thanks Merse!! I have to echo Kev's sentiments here. I have supported West Ham since I was a little kid (blame it on my brother who, for some still unexplained reason, decided West Ham were the team he was going to follow). They were the only club I knew much about when I was 5 or 6 and so naturally enough, they became my team too. West Ham have a fantastic history and have brought some of the best English players in recent history through their academy. Their style of play has always been entertaining and value for money - even if we haven't won anything meaningful for nearly 30 years! The scenes last night are not representative of the majority of West Ham fans and I would not even deign to call the scum, who invaded the pitch and waged a battle against the police and others outside the ground, "fans". Unfortunately, it was predictable that this was going to happen. I deliberately left work early so that I would not be travelling through Upton Park station at "powder keg" time and Kev and I never even entertained going to the game. The police knew that there would be trouble, as did the FA. Perhaps it is time that any WHUFC v Millwall fixture should be played behind closed doors at a neutral venue? With all the cameras on the pitch and outside the ground, it should be relatively easy for the authorities to identify and ban for life the unspeakable low-lifes who acted like animals last night. Punishing an entire club (Merse, I see you want an outright ban on West Ham and Millwall) for the actions of a few gobshites) won't stamp out this problem. The idiotic "fans" will just move on to another team. They aren't interested in the football and they aren't interested in the clubs. They are SCUM of the highest order and the sooner something can be done to stamp them out of the game altogether, the better. As Kev said, a sad day for English football. |
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Post by capitalgull on Aug 26, 2009 8:18:48 GMT
I would echo what Kev and Sallie have said, and bracketing all fans of both clubs into the same sad section of society would be an incorrect assumption. Sadly these people are not there to be football fans, they are fanatics of a different type, looking for one thing and one thing only. The amount of times you see these types at games not even turned towards the pitch and watching the action is amazing. Strangely, the most intelligent and insightful talk I had about the 'slightly tarnished' Beautiful Game until I met Jon or Bartie came with a Millwall fan during a pre-season friendly with Charlton (and yes, there was crowd trouble on the other side of the stadium) so there are genuine fans out there (much like Sallie) if you search far enough. Sadly, this kind of incident as Kev so pertinently says, is going to knock back the worldwide view of the English Hooligan problem towards its 1980/90s incarnation and gives us absolutely no hope of getting the 2018 World Cup finals now. The post-match press conference of Gianfranco Zola, one where I am sure he almost cried at one point, showed you the disappointment and disgust held for these mindless idiots who choose to wreck the game we love so much. Hopefully there is a crackdown on all of those people photographed, filmed and identified, but honestly I doubt it will ever work 100%. The first arrests last evening were for public order offences and breaching banning orders, but those banning orders are barely worth the paper they are written on (ask jaildodgergull) and these yobs will still follow 'their team' looking for a ruck when it suits them, choosing the games when the trouble is more likely because they aren't bothered about going somewhere like Everton or Aston Villa where the opposing club has a nice family atmosphere. I was working all last night (thanks to both clubs for making tt even busier than normal) and the pictures coming in from the agencies at times made a real football fan weep. And then of course we had the single most ridiculous thing I saw amongst all of this - one of the West Ham Idiot Bridgade on the pitch after the Hammers took the lead, running up to Carlton Cole and asking him something like 'ere Cartlon, smile please' while waving his camera phone in front of the England striker! What an absolute halfwit - candidate for the lifetime ban methinks. Plus Sky's ridiculous advert of the night, in the ad break just after the end of extra-time at the Boleyn, for a new film... 'from the makers of Football Factory comes THE FIRM'. The link below will tell you all you need to know but I seriously hope the film distribtion company puts back the release of this 'thriller about football casuals in 1984'. Talk about glamourising this crap, and finding a whole new audience of future hoolies! www.thefirm84.com/Like Romford said, a sad sad night for British Football. |
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Post by lambethgull on Aug 26, 2009 10:52:32 GMT
That report is so very sad and disgusting, I have never liked violence and have never been unable to understand it, how anyone can want to hurt another human being is beyond me. Its time in this country to dish out some real punishment to those who fully deserve it, forget all this PC rubbish. I heard on the news on BBC radio two today, how are streets are out of control with gangs now ruling them, surly something can be done, it really was not like this when I was young.Maybe not Dave, but Millwall hold the record for ground closures due to crowd trouble...the first closure occurring in 1920 after an opposition player was pelted with missiles and phyically assaulted! I think the issue is a bit more complex than a case of 'PC gone mad'. |
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Dave
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Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 26, 2009 11:06:50 GMT
lambethgull you are correct and to be honest its something I have no knowledge about. Its what I was explaining to romfordkev and merse, that living here and not having a clue what its like to live in a city or one that as merse says is multi cultural.
But I do know that we have gone far to soft in this country and maybe its time to get law and order back and punish properly those who are intent on causing harm, pain and destruction.
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Post by lambethgull on Aug 26, 2009 11:30:24 GMT
lambethgull you are correct and to be honest its something I have no knowledge about. Its what I was explaining to romfordkev and merse, that living here and not having a clue what its like to live in a city or one that as merse says is multi cultural. But I do know that we have gone far to soft in this country and maybe its time to get law and order back and punish properly those who are intent on causing harm, pain and destruction. Can see what you're saying Dave, but I'm not convinced that the dishing out of tougher punishments is the answer here. Thankfully, events like last night's are relatively rare compared to the way things were back in the 70s. This is largely due to effective policing and improvements in the regulation of crowds - as well as other changes within society - rather than it being due to judges locking people up for decades. I'm also unconvinced with the 'handing out harsh punishments = a reduction in crime' theory. One glance at the incarceration/crime rates between the USA and much of Europe suggests that, if anything, a case can be made for the opposite! |
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joebarlow
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Asperges and proud
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Post by joebarlow on Aug 26, 2009 11:33:56 GMT
I remember watching a film: `Cass` about a man so called Cass Pennant. He was leader of West Hams firm ISF which stood for Inter City Firm. He would go all around the country in the times of Maggy Thatcher with his cronies trying to big up thier reputation and hope one day that they be called the best firm in the country.
What has changed since those days is that its all become personel, all this fighting. Back in Thatchers days all the fighting was just the firms fighting each other, now its everyone and now its all gotten worse. With people having a lot more technology available to communicate with each other and better organizaton as to where to fight (where police wont interfere) and its got to stop.
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