Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 25, 2009 18:42:21 GMT
Well just back from the hospital with Carol and they were very pleased with how she is doing and I find such great posts to read, so many thanks. I do wonder how I would have felt last night if while driving home I had heard Bucks interview on the radio. having the day to think about it, I decided I would not really have been all that happy really. I made the effort to go to the game, paid my money and its not my fault that so many players failed to perform out on the pitch. If I then was hearing the manager trying to some how blame me and all the others who went to the game, then I could have so easily asked myself why did I bother and would I want to go and pay out £15, watch a poor game and then get slagged off in the process. I'm lucky in some ways as going to Plainmoor for me is so much more these days, I get to meet and chat( best advice eat your pie before you come and chat with me  )with some great new friends who are fellow members on the forum. I do also feel I need to be more committed and attend as many games as I can, because I run a forum for those who support TUFC. There has been times in the past when I missed games, there were many reasons and some were that the football was nothing but rubbish, I was not being entertained etc.I always know that if and when I ever feel like that, It wouldn't last and I would be back watching games and supporting my team before to long. If I was not running the forum and heard Bucks remarks I may well have felt angry enough to stay away for a while, as a fan I still want to be valued by the club and know they are thankful that I and others go to the games and hand over what is so often hard earned cash. Yes we have a few fans who can't stop moaning and shouting out abuse to the players, Merse as might be expected, wants to paint a very dark picture of our fans who go to Plainmoor and rather unfairly in my view. I would expect that some of them that do shout out abuse and also sung we want our Woodies back are the same group I keep hearing mentioned in the away match reports we get on here. I did not sense a group of happy players last night, the only time they seemed together was when Dsane scored and that is so different to how it was when Woods and Mansell were playing at the back together, players smiling and working hard for each other. I'm not saying there is any problems in the dressing room as I simply do not know, my gut feeling is there is some unhappiness about how they may have felt Woods was treated and If that was the case It would go someway to explaining for me,why we were second best all over the pitch to lowly Grays. Bucks does come across as a stubborn man at times and one who once he has taken any action, will not stop to reconsider if he was right or wrong, maybe he feels by doing so as suggested by some on here, he will look weak. I also feel like some others do that Bucks does not like to admit when he has got things wrong, forget about last years play-off games, look at the start of this season. Everyone could see playing Hargreaves at the back was not working, but he was not really willing to admit that himself, when he finally did and we got proper defenders doing the job our results started to improve. Bucks could well go on to be a top manager and for a much higher club, but before he can ever consider that, he needs to put his hands up when he has got it wrong and not look to lay the blame on fans or anyone else. |
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Post by jmgull on Mar 25, 2009 19:04:26 GMT
...I think in a lot of fans minds, only promotion will do as far as bucks goes.
The problem with a large number of our lot is that they have not got their heads around just how tough it is to get out of this league.....until expectations are lowered to a more realistic level then the team will continue to struggle to perform at home as consistently as it does away from Plainmoor.
In my book to get in the play offs at the 1st two attempts (as looks likely) is the most we could ask for and I am certainly contented with that, if we keep knocking on the door then we will get our league status back eventually.....its important not to forget that the greeks didn't make them for their 1st 3 seasons down here..... it also looks like last years relegated duo Mansfield and Wrexham are going to miss out too.
Bucks is right to expect a decent level of support at home........and is entitled to a moan, although i totally agree he did go over the top a bit.
He let the Woods chants get to him last night...he'll learn.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 25, 2009 19:24:09 GMT
Justin, expectations have always been a bit problem at Plainmoor in the last two seasons and more so than at anytime I can ever remember in my time supporting the club.
Last season it was down to our great and unexpected start to the season, before a ball was kicked fans were saying that would be happy with mid-table in our first season as a BSP team.
We made a great start topped the table and so many thought we would then go straight back up.
We know what happened in the end and the bitter disappointment felt by us all, a big part in my view why gates are lower this season.
A game like last night was carrying far to much expectation again, but its the run of good results recently and the fact Burton has slipped up and dropped points, that is the reason.
The game could have meant that if we could beat Burton home and away and also matched their results we would be level on points. We threw that chance away last night and yes I do feel people got frustrated because we dropped those two points that could have seen us level on points with Burton for the reasons above.
It does feel at times that the team take two big steps forward and when we need them to take just one more, they go and take a step backward, its not easy being a TUFC fan at times is it. ;D
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 25, 2009 19:28:57 GMT
Who exactly was Bucks aiming his barbed comments at? Those that reportedly abused him from the Grandstand? Because i don't think that would warrant such a sweeping statement. Or was it those that were singing for Steve Woods? Because I’m afraid he’s brought that on himself and is going to have to be strong enough to stand by the decision he’s made there. He should have realised not everyone would be supportive of the decision. Or perhaps it was the rest of us, that helped create a ‘flat’ atmosphere? Because whether he likes it or not, it’s his job to motivate and inspire the players more than it is ours. People paid good money, some travelled, and all dedicated their time to watch his side last night. Not everyone wants to shout and scream – even when we’re playing well. Some would rather just stand and watch. What they don’t want or deserve is to have their ‘support’ questioned, however they choose to give it. The only people deserving of his criticism are those that continue to barrack certain players – perhaps he should have reserved his comments for them, and left the rest of us out of it. I really think alienating the few of us still turning up on a weekly basis is a mistake. There has always appeared a slight arrogance in the way Bucks goes about his business. It might be time for him to start admitting his own mistakes, because his continued refusal to do so isn't endearing. Where does the blame really lie for sub-2000 attendances? There doesn't appear to be any acknowledgement that it is ultimately his job, and that of his players to provide enough excitement and entertainment to inspire the crowd into noise. If the team are struggling (but working hard), it is our responsibility to try and help them for sure, but when the performance is as flat as that, he can't expect the place to be rocking (has it ever rocked? ;D). If he heard particular things he found distasteful, i can understand his frustration to a degree, but to lay any amount of blame for such a bad performance on a flat atmosphere is completely unjustified. As an aside, if Bucks is so keen to share with us the responsibility for the teams performances, is he going to start sharing his wages around as well? |
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Post by northyorkshiregull on Mar 25, 2009 19:39:24 GMT
I think that bucks is right to moan at the support last night which was poor.Too many supporters think we are above this league,which we are not.We have been on another good run yet as soon as things go against us the crowd get on the players back!I also wonder if Carlisle changed wings in the 2nd half so that he didnt have to play infront of the pop side?Is it any wonder we have a better away record
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 25, 2009 19:46:54 GMT
northyorkshiregull you may be right that some fans feel we are above this league and do not go and won't pay £15 to watch BSP football, at the end of the day that is their choice.
The point you miss about last night was the team were very poor, failed to put in any real effort and as a result the atmosphere was also poor.
It has nothing to do with playing in front on home fans, fans at away matches will also show their displeasure toward a team who do not give 100% out on the pitch.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 25, 2009 19:50:34 GMT
So there are elements of the crowd that aren't helping. I wouldn't disagree with that. And whilst i understand he might have been upset/angry, he really ought to have made the effort to differentiate between the supporters he was talking about. If he'd referred to 'an element' of the support, he might have found more of us in agreement.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Mar 25, 2009 19:58:13 GMT
Is Buckle Right To Blame The Fans ?
No. He shouldn't do that ever.
Did he?
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Post by northyorkshiregull on Mar 25, 2009 20:14:56 GMT
I agree that he should have said something like "a section of the the fans..."rather than have it come across that he is having a go at everyone,but i do believe that at times the home support isnt helping the team and he does have a right to say so
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 25, 2009 20:46:47 GMT
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7963063.stmI felt it best to listen to the interview Bucks made before I made any more comments on this tread. That I have now done and it was not as bad as I expected, but it was all he seemed he wanted to talk about and very little to do with the match. I would say before I go on I did not agree with his views on the second half, he made it sound as we were on top and just could not get the winner, my view was we were only half decent for the first 25 Min's of the whole game. What I did feel was Bucks had a an air of expectancies in his words, making the point where we were in the league table etc and much like some have said that fact should see more fans attending matches. I have always taken the view that just because any club puts on football matches it has no right to expect people to pay and watch games, it is no different from any other sport where people have to pay to watch it. Failure to provide value and decent entertainment will result in any sporting event failing to attract many people willing to pay to watch it. We can go on about it all the time, but it is a fact that many fans can't stand TUFC no longer being a league team and won't pay £15 to watch the team playing clubs like Greys. The only two attractive games at Plainmoor this season saw the best crowds and one was a sell out, why because it looked a fixture well worth watching and a chance to see a decent team play at Plainmoor. The Greys gate was the best Tuesday night game for some time, how many of those extra fans who made the effort. paid to get in, will think they made the right choice and as a result of watching the game, will feel they won't want to miss the next home game. I would guess not that many, the team failed to entertain, some looked like they could not really be asked to try and raise there game, so who could blame any fan for saying I'll think give the next game a miss. Yes we are in 3rd place and we need to now do everything to get out of this league, I have said before failure to do so this season, runs the real risk of even smaller gates next season and the task being made even harder. Until football clubs at our level, get away from just expecting people to support their club and start trying to make what they have to offer far more attractive, then they will always struggle to get the support that matches their expectations.
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merse
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Post by merse on Mar 25, 2009 20:51:02 GMT
 All those getting on their high horses, should go to the BBC Devon site and replay the "offending" interview. All the guy's said is that the atmosphere was flat, that if the mission of achieving League status is to be achieved it will need to be better and (if it makes anyone feel any less insulted) it was the first time it has felt so totally uninspiring. All he's done is what countless other managers have done at clubs down the years, and used a post match interview to try and improve the level of support and inspiration coming from the terraces and stands. What is so wrong with that? What is so objectionable to being criticised, rather than being praised (which he has done on many many occasions) by the manager of OUR team? I'll ask this of anyone spouting anger and indignation at the manager.........................are you so far up your own arse that you can't take a piece of criticism once in a while? Are you of such little fortitude that you fall to pieces and demand apology for someone taking you down a peg or two? Because if you can't take criticism and accept it as an adult you would NEVER make it as part of any sporting team, you would soon be deemed "surplus to requirements" as a certain "ex defender" has recently and when you have calmed down in your self centred little worlds you may care to reflect and wonder if indeed YOUR reaction is not that far removed to the one the manager encountered when dealing with that certain "ex defender" Heaven help you if you had supported a team managed by the late Brian Clough or any other of the many prickly and domineering characters who have earned the right to be revered by their hands on and commanding management of some pretty disparate bunches of individuals and moulded them into successfull teams over the years and lifted dozing, sleeping clubs and their fans up by the bootlaces in the process. Paul Buckle reminded US ALL just where he has dragged OUR club back from in a pretty short space of time. I challenge each and every one of you showing this hysterical "disgust" to show that YOU have what it takes to play YOUR part in that continued journey and mission STILL to be accomplished!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 25, 2009 21:05:54 GMT
Merse while I applaud your rallying call to supports to start supporting, I think you are talking out you ass about people being criticised.
I pay to watch a football match and I really don't think that just because I may not cheer on the team and because I feel they don't deserve it, I should then think it is perfectly fair and correct for some one like Buckle to criticise me.
When was being a supporter every about being prepared to be criticised, never in my book mate, unless it was because I had gone on some rampage at some ground and started fighting etc.
Its strange you feel its fans who should get criticised, yet one word of criticisms against Bucks and anyone who does has an agenda or is part on some anti-buckle out group, according to you.
You do make me laugh at times merse, when you have watched some very poor away game, you have said as much, what did most fans do last night, nothing much just didn't cheer the team on and only because there was sod all to cheer.
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petef
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Post by petef on Mar 25, 2009 21:13:26 GMT
What an absoloute fuss over nothing and blown up out of all proportion.
In my view he had every right to say those things and you could tell he was bloody angry because he felt a section his own supporters were waiting to stick the knife in at the earliest opportunity.
Why was it justified, because it was all fact. Plainmoor has this recuring habit of becoming like the scene at a wake, its so sillent sometimes you wondetr if you realy are at a football match.
Not a single word there offended me and what he said was totaly justified and I would have been more concerned if he had ignored stating that we must ALL pull together to get out of this league.
Its uterly ridiculous after our recent run of results that this blip should gain such a response.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 25, 2009 21:21:46 GMT
Pete after listening to it I also was not offended by it, but do you think that is all he should have gone on about?
He could have added that the crowd did not help much, that was after he fully explained why the team did not really perform and what he plans to do about it.
That is all fans want to hear really, not excuses, not blaming the ref, but honest views on the players performances and where it went wrong if it did.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 25, 2009 21:29:05 GMT
Dave is right, it's not necessarily just about his criticism of the crowd - it's true the atmosphere wasn't great. But at some point, he needs to start putting his own performance under the miscroscope too. As i said earlier, if our influence on the results is really that great, perhaps those of us that turn up every week should be on a percentage of his wage? There was plenty wrong with the performance last night, and i remain unconvinced the biggest contributor was the support levels.
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)with some great new friends who are fellow members on the forum. I do also feel I need to be more committed and attend as many games as I can, because I run a forum for those who support TUFC.
