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Post by longeatongull on Mar 16, 2009 21:16:48 GMT
Its perfectly true that there are no sentiments in football and tough decisions have to be made but this is just one more big balls up of a public relations exercise that has left a sour taste. [glow=,2,300]Stecve Woods should be given the opportunity to say his farewells to the supporters [/glow] It seems to me, reading posts on here and the beatlesesque hysteria in the comments section of the HE, that most people appear to be most pissed of that Woods wasn't able to wave goodbye? 2 issues with that; First, if people are more concerned with him waving good bye, then obviously the decision by Paul Buckle must be seen as a sound decision. Secondly, all this claptrap about allowing Woods to wave goodbye to his adoring fans, please. I made a point in a post on here earlier in the season that Woods is ALWAYS the first down the tunnel at the end of the game, he NEVER used to come over to the pop side or to the away end when we were playing away or sign autographs by the side of the pitch. He didn't give the fans the light of day, so all this stuff about not being able to wave goodbye doesn't wash with me. Yes, respect to him for the last 8 years & however many games, but if he wasn't so up himself then maybe this would not have happened. Like Merse says if he wants to wave goodbye, let him do the Half Time draw. About the decision to release him now or whenever? I don't particularly care one way or the other, promotion is and always has been our priority, if we fail then that is the time to start the bleating and finger pointing, until then back the manager to manage. Come on guys, isn't this just another excuse to have a go at Paul Buckle. Competition closed for this week?? TUFC01 wins post of the week....lots of sense and good points...well done!!.What do you reckon Dave?  |
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Post by stewart on Mar 16, 2009 21:17:10 GMT
Regarding the manner in which Steve Woods has been reported to have left the club, I have no comment to make as I have no idea what has really brought about his abrupt departure.
I have to say, however, that I am puzzled by the manager's reasoning that his decision has been based on Woods' age. This view is implicit in his statement that Ellis and Robertson are the future of the club.
And yet Lee Hodges who, to all intents and purposes, has taken Woods' place in the team, is 36 this year and has, by his own admission, rarely played in that position during his career. His distribution is surprisingly erratic for a proven midfield player and he is arguably inferior to Woods in that respect.
I am not concerned with the suggestion that supporters have been denied the opportunity to say goodbye to Woods, or with anything of an emotional nature.
I do feel, however, that the manager is possibly looking too far ahead when he talks about players who constitute the future of the club. He has to get this club out of the BSP first, and Steve Woods could have had a major part to play, not only in helping to achieve that promotion, but also in lending his experience to a young team back in the Football League.
Alan Merson says earlier in this thread that he is always right. It would be interesting to know if he really believes that, despite the winking smiley.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 16, 2009 21:20:31 GMT
longeatongull please feel free to give him a vote, ;D at the end of the day I think everyone is right, now I can't be fairer than that can I |
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tufc01
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Post by tufc01 on Mar 16, 2009 21:27:06 GMT
It seems to me, reading posts on here and the beatlesesque hysteria in the comments section of the HE, that most people appear to be most pissed of that Woods wasn't able to wave goodbye? 2 issues with that; First, if people are more concerned with him waving good bye, then obviously the decision by Paul Buckle must be seen as a sound decision. Secondly, all this claptrap about allowing Woods to wave goodbye to his adoring fans, please. I made a point in a post on here earlier in the season that Woods is ALWAYS the first down the tunnel at the end of the game, he NEVER used to come over to the pop side or to the away end when we were playing away or sign autographs by the side of the pitch. He didn't give the fans the light of day, so all this stuff about not being able to wave goodbye doesn't wash with me. Yes, respect to him for the last 8 years & however many games, but if he wasn't so up himself then maybe this would not have happened. Like Merse says if he wants to wave goodbye, let him do the Half Time draw. About the decision to release him now or whenever? I don't particularly care one way or the other, promotion is and always has been our priority, if we fail then that is the time to start the bleating and finger pointing, until then back the manager to manage. Come on guys, isn't this just another excuse to have a go at Paul Buckle. But just as it 'isn't an excuse to have a go at Paul Buckle' it shouldn't be an opportunity for a charcter assasination on Woodsie either i'd have thought. I thnik that description is somewhat harsh on a player that's been an excellent servant to our club - through good times and bad. At no point did i say he was a bad servant to our club. If you read the post again you will see that i actually said, respect to him for the last 8 years, etc. Its hardly a character assassination, but i notice that you haven't come back and defended the FACT the he is the first to disappear down the tunnel, after all i was making a case against those that have been moaning that he hasn't been given the opportunity to wave goodbye to the fans. Well he never waved, acknowledged the fans when he was playing so why the uproar about him being denied that opportunity now, except maybe for the half time draw. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 16, 2009 21:33:18 GMT
Stewart, I believe merse feels that if the manager makes a decision, he does so as he believes what he is doing is best for the club and therefore has to be the right decision, even if the fans don't see it that way |
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Fonda
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Talking absolute football...
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Post by Fonda on Mar 16, 2009 21:35:08 GMT
But just as it 'isn't an excuse to have a go at Paul Buckle' it shouldn't be an opportunity for a charcter assasination on Woodsie either i'd have thought. I thnik that description is somewhat harsh on a player that's been an excellent servant to our club - through good times and bad. At no point did i say he was a bad servant to our club. If you read the post again you will see that i actually said, respect to him for the last 8 years, etc. Its hardly a character assassination, but i notice that you haven't come back and defended the FACT the he is the first to disappear down the tunnel, after all i was making a case against those that have been moaning that he hasn't been given the opportunity to wave goodbye to the fans. Well he never waved, acknowledged the fans when he was playing so why the uproar about him being denied that opportunity now, except maybe for the half time draw. I didn't reply to that 'fact' because a) i wasn't aware that it was one, and b) i don't consider it important. What he does during the 90 minutes is of interest to me. Whether he waves on his way off the pitch is really of minor importance in the grand scheme of things. |
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Post by jmgull on Mar 16, 2009 21:54:32 GMT
Since his appointment, Bucks has continually banged on about the one thing that he holds greater value in than anything else.....team spirit.
He has been proved right with a couple of dissentors in Phillips and Rayner and shipped them out at the earliest possible occasion, isn't it crystal clear that this is what is going on here?
The players have bought into this togetherness and all for one attitude in the last 18 months since he came, the fans have, by and large too.....why?
...Cos it works!
No matter what league (or what sport, for that matter) in a season of luck and ill luck, its the one thing that normally seperates the teams that win things and the teams that don't......when you lose it, no matter how hard you try, its devilishly difficult to get it back.
The evidence is there for all to see, winning so many tough away games with very late goals isn't just about luck or even talent, it comes from a belief that we are never beaten as a side and that we will scrap for every ball till the final whistle.
This belief is a belief in your team mates and an urge not to be the one that lets the rest down and it comes from having a good team spirit.
The way to keep it, is to jump on any one that you feel could possibly harm it for whatever reason.........in this case Woods.
To win these very, very big games we have coming up.....we will need it more than ever.
Bucks has made this very tough decision for what he percieves is for the best of the team.
Just as we should respect Woods for his time with the club...
We should also afford the same respect to a manager that isn't scared to make difficult decisions
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Post by petejones on Mar 16, 2009 22:02:42 GMT
But just as it 'isn't an excuse to have a go at Paul Buckle' it shouldn't be an opportunity for a charcter assasination on Woodsie either i'd have thought. I thnik that description is somewhat harsh on a player that's been an excellent servant to our club - through good times and bad. At no point did i say he was a bad servant to our club. If you read the post again you will see that i actually said, respect to him for the last 8 years, etc. Its hardly a character assassination, but i notice that you haven't come back and defended the FACT the he is the first to disappear down the tunnel, after all i was making a case against those that have been moaning that he hasn't been given the opportunity to wave goodbye to the fans. Well he never waved, acknowledged the fans when he was playing so why the uproar about him being denied that opportunity now, except maybe for the half time draw. sorry to wade in on your argument, but i don't see this as FACT...for what it's worth, i always had the impression that Woods had a lot of time for the fans and interracted with us a great deal, during games at least. I remember very well that he continually geed-up the crowd behind the goal away at Northampton on THAT opening day victory, and in a number of other games that season (Cheltenham away too, including a great goal). I can't name you specific examples as I haven't seen much TUFC in the last 2 years or so, but the point is that your occasional observation of him jogging off down the tunnel is neither a 'FACT' and, therefore, nor is your insistence that he didn't care. This whole thing stinks to high heaven but at the end of the day I must reluctantly agree that the priority is promotion. So the question is: does this REALLY help our bid? even if we go up, as Stewart astutely points out, wouldn't Woods' experience be arguably MORE valuable to a team of young players who haven't played too much, if any, football at that level before? I've been enjoying the chance this debalce has provided for Merse's double standards to show themselves. The players for whom Merse seems to have a personal vendetta are spared none of his incisive and well-composed diatribe, which is turned to excellent defensive affect for those he approves of. I am thus proposing a new term for our lexicon: the Mersonal Vendetta; a fiercely and consistenly held irrational personal vendetta. You know that the subject of a Mersonal Vendetta is doing well when he receives nothing but the almost begrudging quiet of our resident wordsmith: see the silence on Woods' excellent season up til now (after recent events we suddenly have exclamations that he should be allowed to play against us if he goes on loan to Salisbury. The inference being he's rubbish. Ho ho ho! How droll) and the lack of comments on Benyon (a stupid player who makes stupid runs apparently...funny that an ex-pro watched him on TV and told me his off-the-ball running was some of the best he'd seen at our level. But it isn't in the channels, so no good of course). At the end of the day I'm struggling to see Buckle's logic here UNLESS we buy into the 'gossip' that Woods really was a disruptive influence. Any other reasons for it to make sense? |
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tufc01
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Post by tufc01 on Mar 16, 2009 22:13:01 GMT
tufc01 you say reading posts on here and the beatlesesque hysteria in the comments section of the HE, that most people appear to be most pissed of that Woods wasn't able to wave goodbye?may I suggest you take the time and read ALL the views again, yes many feel they would have liked to say goodbye to Steve in the way it should happen for a player who has served his club for eight seasons and what an insult to a good player and one who has served the club you support, to say he is only worth a half time draw, so glad I do not work for you mate. but did you miss the real main points? Woods wanted to stay and train and still play his part in our season, one he has already played a big part in. Why would it just be a chance to knock the manager, sorry but he is not god and we do not have to agree with all his decision's, yes because he makes them they stand, but that still does necessary make them right. Some fans did not agree he got things wrong in the play-off games, sorry but I feel he did and why must fans not be allowed to have those views. If Bucks takes the team up this season, that still will not mean that removing Woods was the correct decision, as we would not know if we would have still gone up with him still at the club. I will tell you this for nothing, all those who think its just fine the way Woods seems to have been treated, will be the first ones shouting off their mouths if we do not go up and mistakes at the back end up the reason why. I dont have the time, or the inclination to read EVERY view again, but i dont feel it necessary as i have read them already, hence my post. At the same time may I suggest that you read ALL of the comments on the HE story about Woods, after all i did mention the forum AND the HE. Actually i take that back about the half time draw, he would be off the pitch before the guy came to collect his winnings ;D So you wouldn't work for me? is that because i wouldn't show emotion to someone who showed very little in the time he spent here? I was sad to see Lee Phillips go, now there was someone who as a fan who looks for passion in a player, had it in abundance. Also, i worked in the Navy for 25 years, slightly longer than woods 8 years (and less days off sick). I didn't get the chance, nor would i want to, to stand on the flight deck to receive a rapturous round of applause when i left. I came to the end of my time, i was a 'wonderful servant' etc etc, life moves on, cant understand why there is so much being made of it. I think you are missing my point. I was not arguing about the why's and wherefore's of his leaving. I am addressing the issue that some people are complaining about him not being able to say goodbye, which is entirely different from why he left. But now that i am pushed on that subject and something that i am loathe to touch on but, the story from Woods and the one that has most people up in arms, is very different to the one i heard. Which is even more reason for me to take the stance that i have. However, in the unlikely event that the 'true' story comes out we will have to agree to disagree on this one. you said [glow=red,2,300]"Woods wanted to stay and train and still play his part in our season"[/glow], i would have to add something to the front of that. Woods told the Herald Express he wanted to stay and train..... I also did not say Paul Buckle is God and i agree that we don't all agree with his decisions, mostly his use of substitutes but other things as well. I thought EVERY fan was in agreement that he got it wrong in the play offs, you know that i am a big fan of his, but that was a monumental error in the second leg, HOWEVER i feel that he has learnt from this and makes him the person suited best to manage the side at this moment in time. If we miss out on the play offs then obviously i was wrong. Have to disagree with the statement [glow=red,2,300]If Bucks takes the team up this season, that still will not mean that removing Woods was the correct decision[/glow]. In my mind if we get promoted WHATEVER decision he makes MUST have been the right one. Its not just about a players playing skill, it is also the way that player fits in and how the structure of the team is affected, the dynamics of the team etc. This situation is likely to have had a big influence on some of the others,at least they wont be banging on his door asking for a contract next year. No i reckon they will be getting stuck in and going all out to impress the manager in the hope of getting a new contract, just the way it should be. [glow=red,2,300]all those who think its just fine the way Woods seems to have been treated[/glow] don't you mean the way Woods SAYS he has been treated or the way that people have INTERPRETED the way he has been treated, which could well be VERY DIFFERENT to the way he was ACTUALLY treated. Two sides to any story and all that. In fact haven't we been down this road earlier in the season with a certain sponsor and CEO? |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 16, 2009 22:13:06 GMT
A good sound and solid post Justin and as you will know your views are always well respected due to your own sports history,yes team spirit is so important and will play its part in helping teams to get results, I just struggle to believe that Woods is now someone to harm the team spirit.
Like Bucks has said he will live or die by the decisions he makes and while we may not agree with them, we have no choice but to go along with them and hope he really has got it right.
I see no problem with fans discussing it and even those who at this time may not agree with what has happened, still support the manager and will be the first to say well done if it turns out he has indeed called it correctly.
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Post by Budleigh on Mar 16, 2009 22:34:02 GMT
I am also loath to place anything on here about this situation for a number of reasons, but I agree with the majority of points that tufc01 made. Think about this; only two people were at that meeting last Sunday and the meeting finished amicably with Steve Woods supposedly understanding the situation regarding his contract not being renewed. Is it not possible that for the some reason the player involved then acted in a way that went against the spirit of that meeting? Is it not possible that a phone call was made to a third party that undermined our managers authority meaning the manager had to make a decision and act before he was seen to be weak, a decision for the good of stability within the club? Who knows, but there's always more than one side to a story, and it is often the person who rattles the cage who has something to hide...
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 16, 2009 22:34:31 GMT
tufc01, you do seem to have problems with your reading tonight, yes Woods did tell the HE he wanted to stay and train and play if required, in the very same article Bucks also said that is what Woods wanted to do, but he(Bucks) declined the offer. Like merse you have never been a Woods lover and maybe not getting piped of deck has left you a little sore If Woods was so bad he would not have lasted eight seasons and no I would not work for any boss who failed to value my contribution and only felt I was worth just a half time draw. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 16, 2009 22:58:22 GMT
Well BudleighGull I can now predict just what merse will now post in the morning once he has read your post, I think you may be a bit guilty of selective memory, but then thats only my view and what do I know really |
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petef
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Post by petef on Mar 16, 2009 22:59:15 GMT
Whatever the rights and wrongs, differing viewpoints etc etc the fact remains that the huge number of posts on the subject on various boards suggests to me that the timing and handling of the whole affair has been farcical in the extreme and totally unprofessional.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 16, 2009 23:06:58 GMT
Yes pete as you say Whatever the rights and wrongs, lets be thankful for barton, Chris hayes and otobe, for giving us plenty of good other reading tonight to enjoy.
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