merse
TFF member
Posts: 2,684
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Post by merse on Mar 1, 2009 18:25:08 GMT
I think the stewarding at Plainmoor is the worst its ever been, you get them walking up and down thinking they are the torquay or something.............................  I think this has to pre-empt one of the most ignorant posts I've seen on this quality site. You've obviously paid no attention to the considerable thought and input on here from Dave and Steve004 and it only goes to show that whilst every attempt can be made to treat people as adults and genuine supporters of some intelligence, there will always be the idiot minority who only seem to understand a belt in the bollocks when no-one is watching. Congratulations to Steve in dealing with your stupid stance in a professional and civil manner. Thankfully I don't have to do that because I am not a professional steward.........................and that's what these people are by dint of their intention and for some achievements in attaining their NVQs. Congratulations to them, they are a whole lot better than the neanderthals that used to do the job at Plainmoor, unfortunately they still have to deal with the same idiot fringe YOU represent. Suggestion: Why don't YOU try to achieve an NVQ in something, just anything ~ bungee jumping from the floodlights, hopscotch on the railway or swimming the Atlantic. Good luck in your efforts!  |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 1, 2009 19:47:47 GMT
Not a pointless video Merse in the context of what this whole thread was about and that was in case you forgot, the c word song we have sung at refs in our ground. Without people like Chris Hayes and Romfordkev having cameras with them at grounds they go to, we would not have all the great pictures we do on the forum, mind you not having them would make you happy as the forum would not be stretched for you, while everyone else are so glad they did as they really add so much to the forum. I didn't mean "pointless" from the view of OUR use of it, that isn't what the maker of the video did it for; it was the futility of paying all that money for an admittedly crap view of proceedings anyhow and then effectively "missing" the game to play with his camcorder. The content and standard of photos on here are second to none and don't deserve to be put in the same category as that rubbish which is in reality an homage to silly adolescents being big pretending to be "Ultra" and provocative. Setting MY resolution renders print too small for my vision, so just leave it to me to put up with as I value the ability to read the written word above all else so kindly do not insinuate I would be "happy not to have them"; I think they are marvellous.[/ As I have pointed out the solution to the problem is in your own hands, but as you think they are marvellous, then I trust that you will no longer feel the need to make angry posts aimed at the members who put the marvellous pictures up for all our enjoyment. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 1, 2009 20:58:06 GMT
snakey, I really am not sue if your post is just a windup, because I fail to see how you can state we now have the worst stewards in the ground. I to was unhappy that forum members who stopped for a quick chat were being asked to move on. I did make the point that it was done in a very polite way and not like it would have been done a few seasons back.
I took the time and trouble to speak with Steve 004 and asked for a good reason why this is now seen as a problem, as it has never been before. He has explained about the NVQ's etc and surely you can see that those taking their NVQ's have to be seen as doing all the required things they are asked to do.
Steve has said the last home game would see the end to the assessors for a while and so things should be a bit more relaxed, as Steve has said, anything you are unhappy about you can have a chat and find a good way forward.
If you would like to go back to a few seasons ago,when we could not even approach the stewards, when you felt intimidated by them, then fine, I'll stick to these if you don't mind and I'm sure working with them and not against them, we can make Plainmoor a real happy ground and one we can enjoy and feel safe in.
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Post by steve2009 on Mar 2, 2009 10:21:51 GMT
thanks to the support and comments made by Merse, Dave and Aussie. i am as you stated trying to understand all aspects of fans dis-pleasure so welcome his criticism, but now it has been explained surely he will understand, in response to his other comments reference, stewards walking up and down, smoking behind the away stand etc etc, 1) as a supervisor, i have a duty under the health and safety at work act 1973, to ensure the safety of myself, colleagues and anyone else within the confines of my area, at Plainmoor, this includes, stewards, programmer sellers, catering staff, ground staff, linesmen, referees, and members of the public. we have a responsibility to monitor the stands for unlawful behaviour and to enforce your club rules, eg, bottles, cans, alcohol, fights, and to keep stairways and safety zones clear, i don't see any other way of doing this, other than by walking up and down, i normally have one steward (yellow jacket) walking up and down as a spotter, and myself (orange jacket 004) who if you notice actually takes time to check with the stewards posted around the stand if they are ok, relieve them, if needed for the toilet, and to address any problems they may have, and to re-position them if needed, eg half time, full time position change. 2) why does he think we disappear behind the away stand for a cigarette?  ?? rather than walk in front of the away stand we actually walk behind the stand, to meet up with our colleagues who work at gate 4, one of the reasons for this is they could have a problem, or we could have a problem, that we need to discuss. we do not do this via radio, because if something needs to be addressed by radio is urgent, they can't get through if we are talking about something which is less urgent, i am a smoker myself and from the time my duty starts until i finish, i do not have a cigarette and i will brief out at the next match that if they want or need a cigarette then they will have to do the same. i hope this clarifies this. on a lighter note, ain't the weather gorgeous, I'm on holiday from my main job for two weeks, looks like i picked the right two weeks. mind you the other half obviously thinks I'm on holiday to work lol. |
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Post by steve2009 on Mar 2, 2009 11:05:17 GMT
a comment was made reference bottle tops being removed from the drink, but that the stewards had there's left on, I've searched the previous pages but can't find it, however, having spoken to my manager can now respond to this.
the tops are removed as a safety issue, apparently the bottles were being used as missiles, (not sure if this was at Plainmoor)
however a steward, can't have an open bottle in his pocket, for obvious reasons. i take on board the comment about, it should be the same for all, however i would like to think that a steward would not launch a missile at the pitch.
hope this clarifies this point.
Steve004
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Post by snakey on Mar 2, 2009 16:43:52 GMT
First of all i would like to point out to MERSE that i do have NVQ's and have trained hard and worked hard to achieve these, i also have a City and Guilds Qualification. Your personal attack on me has been noted and as this is a forum, i will not attack you as i am happy to talk to people and allow people to have there opinion/s i will just leave it as i know i dont have to hide behind a computer, i attend the games and i am allowed my opinion.
I have no understanding about your treat people as an adult bit means when i have attended thousands of matches from the age of 3 months old from grass roots games to Premiership games to England games, and not once have i ever caused one bit of trouble. Your post was of idiotic proportions, and i feel a personal attack against somebody you don't even know is a strange one but then you can say what you like because you are entitled to your opinion!.
As somebody that attends every home game and a few away games i am entitled to my opinion and that is what and still is my opinion. I agree with Dave R about the stewards are better then a couple of years ago.
As a person you are entitled to your opinion, and i am entitled to mine i have read through the posts and have seen that Steve 004 is trying to communicate with the fans which is good, I also see that Dave R is doing his bit by being the middle man which i find also good.
Don't forget that everyone is entitled to there opinion MERSE and although i dont always agree with what everyone says i certainly would not attack them personally and insult them like you have to me. Just remember this is a forum about football and the surrounds, not about me, you or any others on here.
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Post by snakey on Mar 2, 2009 16:48:02 GMT
Aussie, i am not a cretton.
I have been supporting Torquay United football club for 21 years and in my opinion some of the stewards are way over the top. Although this might not be the same as most on this forum, it is of a lot of people at the ground, which it really counts.
As i have previously said i am entitled to my opinion and although i may have been harsh on them the stewards are not as good as they should be.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Mar 2, 2009 16:54:39 GMT
I agree with Dave R about the stewards are better then a couple of years ago. It's fair to say that is not how your original post came across, snakey. |
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Dave
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Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Mar 2, 2009 16:55:48 GMT
Thank you once again Steve for your replies on this thread and I would like to ask a question and also give my views on some points you have made.
The bottle top issue has always been a very sore subject with me personally and I do have strong views on it.You say you have spoken to the manager about the bottle tops, is this the club manager or your manager at the ground?
I would like to know if this bottle top rule is on that is laid down by the FA and if not then who has made the rule, is it in writing that it has to be enforced, or is it only an advisory rule.Or is it just a club rule, as I do know it is not enforced in all grounds.
The problem I have with the rule is this, I have never known a bottle to have ever been thrown on to the pitch at Plainmoor and who is going to spend £1.50 on a drink and throw it onto the pitch.I can understand why a steward could not have a pop bottle in his pocket with no top on, but by having a bottle top on, it will always look like one rule for one and one for another.
Last home game the steward we talked about, took off his bottle top, had a drink and then put it back on, we were well into the first half. He then walked past me and spoke with a man who must have been seventy, as he had a top on his bottle. The steward as is told to do, took the old mans bottle top of him. So you can understand how unfair it all looks and why some get upset and angry about it.
I no longer by any drinks at the ground, one reason is I only want a sip every now and then and a bottle would have lasted the whole game. Without a top its flat before halftime and ruined as far as I'm concerned, a product I have paid good money for.
The other reason is I feel like we are being treated like children, no you can't have a bottle top, you may throw the bottle onto the pitch, you say a steward would not do that, but as I believe no one ever has at Plainmoor, it must mean the fans have a 100% record for not throwing bottles onto the pitch.
The rule is stupid anyway for many other reasons, but If I wanted to go to a game and throw something on the pitch, I would take an old mobile phone. Much heavier, I will be able to guide it better at my target and It will do more damage and I can take it into the ground with ease.
In my pocket I will have coins, these will do more harm and cause a worse injury to any player they hit, yet I can have them in my pocket, ready to throw, but I can't have a bottle top. I support the team and just forget about having a drink at the game, but I know some now ex fans who refuse to be treated like little children and no longer go.
I have spoken to many non-football people I meet and when you tell them you can't have a bottle top on a plastic bottle they laugh and think I have gone mad. Health and safety is one thing, but there is a strong case that it is going to far and rules are being made when there is no need for them.
If TUFC can let me know when a bottle was thrown, who it hit and what injury it caused and if it has ever happen before or since, then I may see there could be a need for such a rule.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 2, 2009 17:22:27 GMT
First of all i would like to point out to MERSE that i do have NVQ's and have trained hard and worked hard to achieve these, i also have a City and Guilds Qualification. Your personal attack on me has been noted and as this is a forum, i will not attack you as i am happy to talk to people and allow people to have there opinion/s i will just leave it as i know i dont have to hide behind a computer, i attend the games and i am allowed my opinion. I have no understanding about your treat people as an adult bit means when i have attended thousands of matches from the age of 3 months old from grass roots games to Premiership games to England games, and not once have i ever caused one bit of trouble. Your post was of idiotic proportions, and i feel a personal attack against somebody you don't even know is a strange one but then you can say what you like because you are entitled to your opinion!. As somebody that attends every home game and a few away games i am entitled to my opinion and that is what and still is my opinion. I agree with Dave R about the stewards are better then a couple of years ago. As a person you are entitled to your opinion, and i am entitled to mine i have read through the posts and have seen that Steve 004 is trying to communicate with the fans which is good, I also see that Dave R is doing his bit by being the middle man which i find also good. Don't forget that everyone is entitled to there opinion MERSE and although i dont always agree with what everyone says i certainly would not attack them personally and insult them like you have to me. Just remember this is a forum about football and the surrounds, not about me, you or any others on here. snakey, from day one on this forum, it has had very strong values and principle's put in place, one of them was that each member was free to post their own views, while I did not share your views in your first post, I took the time to rely to it. Once any view is posted, other members may well want to challenge your views, or even support them, whatever the case might be. Everyone knows merse has is own way to reply, it can be blunt, but it will be his honest views and even then they may still be wrong and should never be taken as Gospel. I hope Steve's post has gone some why to explain why he walks up and down during the game at the ground, a few seasons ago, we had the top ones from Plymouth doing just that and believe me they really were so much more intimidating May I suggest at the next home game, you stop and say hello to Steve 004, you will find him a pleasant person to talk with and you may just feel afterward that he is only there to do a job, but is aways willing to listen and try and help with any issues you may have. |
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Post by aussie on Mar 2, 2009 18:05:18 GMT
Dave R, the bottle tops used to be filled with coins thus making them extremely painful weapons, I believe it was the old Jocks coming up with yet another way in which to hurt people, wish they would stick to really good inventing like the T.V.
Snakey, I say it how I see, and you mate came across like a cretton so thats what I said, since your original post you have made more sense and seem have a point, not one I agree with but a valid point from your perspective I believe. Remark withdrawn, I probably spelt it wrong anyway!
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Post by chrish on Mar 2, 2009 18:10:16 GMT
thanks to the support and comments made by Merse, Dave and Aussie. i am as you stated trying to understand all aspects of fans dis-pleasure so welcome his criticism, but now it has been explained surely he will understand, in response to his other comments reference, stewards walking up and down, smoking behind the away stand etc etc, 1) as a supervisor, i have a duty under the health and safety at work act 1973, to ensure the safety of myself, colleagues and anyone else within the confines of my area, at Plainmoor, this includes, stewards, programmer sellers, catering staff, ground staff, linesmen, referees, and members of the public. we have a responsibility to monitor the stands for unlawful behaviour and to enforce your club rules, eg, bottles, cans, alcohol, fights, and to keep stairways and safety zones clear, i don't see any other way of doing this, other than by walking up and down, i normally have one steward (yellow jacket) walking up and down as a spotter, and myself (orange jacket 004) who if you notice actually takes time to check with the stewards posted around the stand if they are ok, relieve them, if needed for the toilet, and to address any problems they may have, and to re-position them if needed, eg half time, full time position change. 2) why does he think we disappear behind the away stand for a cigarette? ?? rather than walk in front of the away stand we actually walk behind the stand, to meet up with our colleagues who work at gate 4, one of the reasons for this is they could have a problem, or we could have a problem, that we need to discuss. we do not do this via radio, because if something needs to be addressed by radio is urgent, they can't get through if we are talking about something which is less urgent, i am a smoker myself and from the time my duty starts until i finish, i do not have a cigarette and i will brief out at the next match that if they want or need a cigarette then they will have to do the same. i hope this clarifies this. on a lighter note, ain't the weather gorgeous, I'm on holiday from my main job for two weeks, looks like i picked the right two weeks. mind you the other half obviously thinks I'm on holiday to work lol. Steve, the Health and Safety Act was in 1974! I'm not usually pedantic but I don't want you to get the question wrong in any exams you have coming up! ;D |
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Post by steve2009 on Mar 2, 2009 19:25:10 GMT
good evening to you all,
many thanks to chris hayes who corrected my mistake on the health and safety act, good feedback.
to snakey, please come and say hi at the next game be great to put a face to the comments, and as dave has said, i am approachable and wiiling to try to talk through any problems or issues you bring to me via this forum or face to face, and honestly if i do not know the answer to your question i will as dave will back up, try to get an answer for you asap and will try to resolve things to a satisfactory standard.
dave, the issue over bottle tops is yet another of those that we have been told to enforce this is a club rule at Plainmoor, not sure if it is an FA ruling that some clubs do not enforce, but i will endeavour to find that answer for you, annoying to some i know but the power that be etc etc
aussie, thanks for your input on the bottle top issue, i believe that is where the problem started, and like most things was very quickly picked up on by other football supporters around the country, i too have not known a bottle to be launched at Plainmoor, however at the last home match i was hit by flyiing food!!!!!!!!
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Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Mar 2, 2009 19:26:31 GMT
I think the Stewards are more or less always "onto a loser". I don't mean that to anyone in a derogatory way (stewards or supporters). It's just that some people think that they can behave how they want and anyone who prevents them from doing what believe they are entitled to are often going to be on the end of what is at best objection and in some cases outright abuse.
I would rather see some of the sometimes daft insistence of adherance to some of the rules and regulations than the shocking aggressive behaviour of some of the animals that used to goad the Pop Side of a few seasons ago. I've also encountered some real idiots in my travels around watching matches (although to be fair, some very decent ones as well).
I personally think that the current Stewards are a vast improvement and I'm satisfied that the improvements are likely to continue.
In an ideal world we wouldn't need so many, but they are also there for everyone's safety rather than just to "spoil the fun".
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Fonda
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Talking absolute football...
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Post by Fonda on Mar 2, 2009 21:02:11 GMT
The rule is stupid anyway for many other reasons, but If I wanted to go to a game and throw something on the pitch, I would take an old mobile phone. Much heavier, I will be able to guide it better at my target and It will do more damage and I can take it into the ground with ease. In my pocket I will have coins, these will do more harm and cause a worse injury to any player they hit, yet I can have them in my pocket, ready to throw, but I can't have a bottle top. Evidently you've put a worrying degree of thought into this issue Dave.  |
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