European Union: In or Out ?

I'm waiting for Alpine to come on here to tell us why the latest economic figures just released have got nothing to do with Brexit and are just came news.

plainmoorpete

 There was really no need for me to say anything. You've got 3 years of Remainers posts across the Forums to refer to instead.

Think of all the positive economic data, especially the employment figures over the past 3 years since the Referendum. On each occasion that data has been published can I scroll back through your posts Pete, or Rob's, and find you both crediting Brexit for the good news ? I certainly hope so, otherwise popping up to connect Brexit with a little disappointing news would look as if you you weren't applying a criteria fairly.

There's a full three years of examples, the most recent one being only a few weeks ago (16th July) posted on BTPIR.

Remember rigormortis's post:


In the three months to May, total earnings for employees, excluding bonuses, rose by 3.6 per cent compared with the same period last year, up from 3.4 per cent in the three months to April, the Office for National Statistics reported on Tuesday. This was a faster pace than City economists had forecast and the highest rate since July 2008.

The unemployment rate remained at 3.8 per cent, the lowest since 1974, while the share of those in employment remained close to a record high.

“Regular pay is growing at its fastest for nearly 11 years in cash terms, and its quickest for over three years after taking account of inflation,” said Matt Hughes, deputy head of labour market statistics at the ONS. “The labour market continues to be strong, with the employment rate still at a near-record high and unemployment down again.”


And remember what the Leave voting BTPIR member was quick to reply ?


'What you cannot get your head around is that is because we are in the EU'



The 'any good economic news is because we're in the EU, yet any bad economic news will be because of Brexit' is so preposterous that the Remainers who try to peddle this double standard are just making themselves look silly. And as they're doing such a good job of that, I'd prefer to stand back and let them get on with it. 

Andy Bruce, David Milliken (Reuters)


Well an annual growth rate is still growth even if it's not quite so fast, as I'm sure you'd both agree Mr.Bruce and Mr.Milliken. But for a better context and a wider view of the economic position of the EU economies, I wonder why we didn't get a link provided a couple of days ago informing us that industrial production in Germany tumbled 5.2pc year-on-year in June, the biggest drop since 2009 ?

As Reuters didn't put in an appearance on TFF on Wednesday, we'll call on the Telegraph to help us out: link - Germany Heading For Recession

But what are our incentives for working harder and getting better economic results Mr. Bruce and Mr.Milliken, while we're members of the EU ? Do we enjoy the fruits of our labours or get them taken off us by our EU Masters ? Can you not understand that people would rather their hard work funded extra police officers or more hospital beds in Britain ?

Work harder, achieve more, and our reward is that we get to hand a massive amount more over to the EU ?  It's an 'incentive' that is so off putting that it really shouldn't be any surprise that we've voted to rip it up, get out of the EU, and instead arrange to be the one's that benefit from our own hard work in future. An extra 20% in just one year ?? Our punishment for doing well. We did know what we were voting for, and it was to put an end to the EU scamming Britain in this fashion   link - Daylight Robbery   But again, I can't remember an Reuters link a few weeks ago from you two when this fiasco was the news.

And so you're wasting your time with your '0.2% GDP drop' headlines. We've had Project Fear from morning till night for 3 long years, and your concerns for the interests of the Bankers and speculators still don't sway the average Brexit voter. Doing what's best for Hedge Fund managers and global corporations just isn't a priority for a great many that voted leave. As Sargon explained a few weeks ago'Breaking news: the GDP is a worthless metric for the working people of a country'. He may not be 100% right in every aspect of his argument, but it does serve as a reminder why scare stories about 0.2% of GDP from Messrs Bruce and Milliken continue to cut no ice, and why we'd all prefer to hear Rob's views instead.

If I may just stick my oar in here from a Scottish perspective:

Scotland rejected Brexit in the referendum by a much larger margin than independence was defeated 2 years previously. I have never seen any argument proposing that Brexit of any kind, let alone a No Deal, will be of any benefit to Scotland, other than the one that it provides the most compelling reason yet for people to switch sides and join the independence movement. Dragging a nation out of Europe against its will is no way to Make Friends & Influence People, particularly as in 2014 one of the No side's most persuasive arguments was that Scotland would be left outside the EU in the event of a Yes vote. 

From the outside looking in I am horrified by what England has become, especially in the working class heartlands of the North and Midlands. After 35 years of antagonism, the ex miners of Yorkshire & Nottinghamshire are finally re-united by their support for Nigel Farage. My workplace best buddy, a firebrand socialist councillor on Wakefield CC, celebrated his win in this year's local election by berating Yvette Cooper for trying to block a No Deal Brexit, as if European citizens are to blame for poverty in South Elmsall and leaving the EU will bring Milk & Honey to the slagheaps and derelict pit workings. Madness! Watching the Test Match highlights (!) and seeing the crowing fools dressed as crusaders and singing God Save The Queen when England were building a first innings lead made me, for the first time in my 62 years, want the Aussies to win. The misery that descended on the English supporters when they were eventually thrashed is nothing compared to the disappointment to come after NDB, when they realise how many of them have voted and sung their way into the land of Universal Credit.

Aye, and we had a General Election in 2015 which democratically returned a Tory government, but that didn't prevent Ms May from calling another 2 years later. The result in 2017 suggested that a lot of folk had changed their minds over the preceding 2 years. 

The referendum took place 3 years ago. "No Deal" was not one of the options; we weren't asked what kind of Brexit we wanted. It was just a straight Yes or No. If the question were asked today "Do you want (a) a No Deal Brexit (b) Brexit following a deal no matter how long it takes to get one or (c) no Brexit at all then the exercise would be more democratic than the original. It would also allow people aged 18, 19 and 20, who didn't get a say last time even though their lives are going to be affected more than those of old gits like us, to become part of the democratic process. 

It's never been part of British democracy to say "Right, that's it. You've had your vote & made your bed. Now you can lie on it." If you are on a low rate of benefit, a "significant change in circumstances" allows the original decision to be looked at again and changed; I see no reason why the same regulation shouldn't apply to something as important as Brexit. The significant change of circumstances is that people are much better informed now than they were in the days of "£350 million per week to the NHS."