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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 12:59:40 GMT
I remember the uprights, that still stand in the last picture, used to support a green roof but otherwise is unchanged and the end behind the posts at the seafront end was essentially a car-park on match days. Not that I ever went but those ornate turnstiles feature in childhood memories for some reason - possibly to watch something like 'It's a Knockout' there or something similar. Of Chris Roberts hairbrained schemes, TUFC at the Rec, could have been quite exciting, right by the station and seafront, and a move to Plainmoor may have breathed a bit of life into the Tics. There is no rugby culture in Torquay, although why it has been overtaken by much more junior clubs in Brixham, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth and even Kingsbridge in recent years, is a mystery. Perhaps the club's refusal to contemplate the professional era did for it. Perhaps a fairly disparate local populace compared to say the tighter communities of Brixham or Exmouth (where the town has two thriving rugby clubs), means there is no support for, or interest, in rugby. You imagine in say, Brixham, most youngsters, at some point, come across the rugby club and the same would probably be true in Exmouth. In Torquay, it was probably only the grammar school that took rugby seriously and many of the ex-pupils from there would have moved away. Torquay has four secondary schools - any focus on one particular sport can be diluted, whereas in Brixham and Exmouth, with just one school, kids probably have less chance of avoiding it, if rugby has a dominant theme, which in a fisherman's town, or a town also linked to fishing as well as the armed forces, the tougher sport of rugby may have more appeal. Wildly, sweeping in terms of generalisations but a possible theory. When I was a pupil at Churston many years ago, the autumn term was the rugby term. We were not permitted to play football until the spring term. With a high percentage of pupils from Brixham, I am sure this early exposure led many of them to play rugby over football. Several of my ex-school friends who are now Facebook friends are still avid BRFC supporters, over 40 years later. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 15:32:24 GMT
When I was a pupil at Churston many years ago, the autumn term was the rugby term. We were not permitted to play football until the spring term. I always smile at the idea of one term for rugby; another for soccer. It makes a sort of sense in the south west where both codes are popular. But, when it comes to grammar schools, there's a feeling of them aping fee-paying schools. And, if you've spent a lifetime of reading footballers' autobiographies, you could easily be under the impression that grammar schools only played rugby. There appear to have been whole generations of players who, in their eagerness to display their "Man of the People" roots, boast of deliberately failing the eleven-plus - or almost immediately getting booted out of grammar school - in order to avoid the fate of being forced to play rugby union or succumbing to becoming members of the dreaded middle-class. My memories of rugby at school are brief. My rugby career started in autumn 1967; it finished well before the clocks went back the same year. I remember being asked, without explanation or instruction, to play "inside centre". My mate from primary school was placed as "outside centre". Or was it the other way around? He touched the ball once (inadvertently); me not at all. We were not troubled to play the game again. Nor were we much better at association football. The pair of us were amongst the unwanted, unfortunates and misshapen forever banished to the far margins of Shiphay Manor. Forty-seven years later, I have an appreciation of the history and influence of rugby union. But absolutely no knowledge of, nor any desire, to discover the difference between an inside centre and an outside centre. Exeter, World Cup host city: With a high percentage of pupils from Brixham, I am sure this early exposure led many of them to play rugby over football. Several of my ex-school friends who are now Facebook friends are still avid BRFC supporters, over 40 years later. Ah yes, Brixham. Lovely place as it is I've always considered it has the aura of "otherness" about it. My theory is that there is a massive fault line between Paignton and Brixham. Paignton (even though it is in Devon) is the western limit of the English South Coast that has stretched from Kent (whatever lies inland, the East Devon resorts always feel transplanted from Hampshire and Sussex to me). Brixham, by contrast, is the start of a different place; more rugged, fishing to the fore; rugby and chapels. You could loosely describe it as "Cornish". But it might not, of course, be wise to do so. |
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Post by gullone on Oct 23, 2014 16:07:07 GMT
[quote author=" stuartB" Ivan Mauger what a class act he was!! Love watching the Falcons, probably at the same time as you Gullone. Scott Autrey, Chris Julien, etc what great memories from 73-74 ish[/quote] Used to get taken up to the County Ground by my uncle in his old Jag. Mauger and the American Autrey were virtually unbeatable up there at the time. Seem to remember it was Monday eves at 7 30 with school the next morning ! |
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Post by ricardo on Oct 23, 2014 18:12:34 GMT
As another Churston pupil of the 70's, what really pissed me off was that we played rugby in the Autumn term in any weather but when it was soccer in the Spring term the slightest hint of rain or cold and the pitches apparently became unplayable. So we either had to resort to the ankle deep grass on The Common (if we were lucky) or an indoor session in the gym (murder-ball or circuit training but never 5-a-side).
Might have had something to do with the sports master. Rick Wooldridge was a rugby man (after his first love, Basketball) and played for The Tics for some years I believe. Others who helped with sports as a second subject to their own (Waldron, Wolsley, Bond)were a bit more football friendly. I have fond memories of Mr Bond in particular running around the pitch in his ancient blue tracksuit screaming abbreviated versions of boys' surnames!
As a Paignton born lad who moved over to the Darkside (Brixham) at the age of ten, I do see where Barton is coming from with his description of the scenic and cultural differences between the two towns. I grew to love Brixham as a place to live and had many school friends who played for The Fishermen at Colts level and beyond. I was never so keen on the game or one for joining clubs and preferred to spend my time in informal kick-abouts on Furzeham Green.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2014 18:50:02 GMT
I'm not about to bid but I have been on eBay looking at Torquay Athletic items; several of which nicely complement the relics that Gullone has posted on this thread. The images aren't large enough to replicate. The main item to catch my eye was the programme/teamsheet from the full England trial held at The Rec in December 1946. That would have been immediately before the start of the international series and it would be interesting to learn the attendance. Torquay United were at home against Brighton the same afternoon; it was also the final Saturday before Christmas. England trials happened all over the place; I've found evidence of one at Falmouth. There's also mention online of another occurring at Torquay in 1932. Then there was 1962/63. The "big freeze" put pay to the final trial at Twickenham on 7 January 1963. Everywhere was frozen apart from Torquay which put the game on, at short notice, just a week before England played Wales. Before then, rugby was probably largely fairly parochial - a bigger fish in a smallish pond, with the merit tables largely providing the surrounds of that pond, with probably a similar fixture list each year. Competitions like the Devon Cup mattered, even the 'John Player Cup' as it was, (which is now the LV Trophy, Chiefs won last season, open to only Premiership and Welsh clubs) had some glamour to it. The same with the County Championships, all have waned since the leagues took priority. You're right. Internationals aside, what constituted a "big game" in rugby union was completely different to football. You'd have county games (played by the top players), tour matches, sevens tournaments, university, forces fixtures and all sorts of occasions involving invitation sides such as MR Steele-Bodger's XV and Captain Crawshay's XV. One Easter, waiting for the football scores on the radio, I remember asking my father "Who are these Barbarians?" There was a certain regularity: Captain Bogey sent a team down every third Wednesday in November; the club president fielded a team on Boxing Day; the chairman on Easter Monday. The international tours went on for months and reached every part of the country. I'm looking at the details of the 1963/64 All Blacks tour of the British Isles; thirty games between October 23 and February 15. Fixtures at Bristol, Bournemouth and Exeter; another four in France; two in Canada. I'm imagining games at Torquay Athletic had a certain regularity as well. You turned up to see them play a relatively local side. There were no league points at stake so you could enjoy the game and show a genuine interest in the opponents. A small amount of muttering after a defeat; quiet satisfaction after a win. But nothing serious and all rather muted. Then, four or five times a season, something special at The Rec which would draw a larger crowd. eBay, for example, has programmes for a schools international in 1958 (I'm sure I saw one at The Rec in the late 1970s) and for a series of festival games in August 1961. There's also home and away programmes against St Luke's College, Exeter. One talks of a forthcoming match against Cardiff with tickets available from Ivor Slade (was this Slade's the grocers at the bottom of Fleet Street?). Another programme is for a game away to St Luke's at Magdalen Road, Exeter. This would have been on the college campus. What sort of spectator facilities were in evidence considering the strength of the college and its fixture list? It is funny really that we are sort of coming to the conclusion that Torquay has been slow to adapt to the brave new world of professional and semi-professional rugby union. Going back in history, Torquay was very keen to embrace professionalism in rugby - long before it was legal to do so. Rooting around on the web I came across a link between Torquay Athletic and Wigan rugby league; one where Tics were the aggrieved party after one of their players "defected". This was AV (Rocker) Twose who "went North" for money in 1931. Grandfather, I believe, of Roger Twose who played cricket for New Zealand. Twose enjoyed a certain degree of success at Wigan and later played for Streatham and Mitcham, another of rugby league's occasional missionary clubs in London. |
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Post by stuartB on Oct 23, 2014 20:24:46 GMT
[quote author=" stuartB" Ivan Mauger what a class act he was!! Love watching the Falcons, probably at the same time as you Gullone. Scott Autrey, Chris Julien, etc what great memories from 73-74 ish Used to get taken up to the County Ground by my uncle in his old Jag. Mauger and the American Autrey were virtually unbeatable up there at the time. Seem to remember it was Monday eves at 7 30 with school the next morning ! [/quote] it certainly was 7.30 Monday night and feeling tired but satisfied on a Tuesday morning having normally seen a thrilling demonstration of riding. No Jag for me, just my Dad's old mini. Took to standing on the bend and wearing large swimming goggles so i wouldn't have to turn away for a second |
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keyberrygull
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Post by keyberrygull on Oct 23, 2014 21:35:44 GMT
Took to standing on the bend and wearing large swimming goggles so i wouldn't have to turn away for a second. Being 4ft nothing at the time, the bend was the only vantage point available to me. Swimming goggles! Nah, I opted for the girlie see through umbrella. Happy days... |
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hector
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Post by hector on Oct 23, 2014 21:45:04 GMT
I remember the uprights, that still stand in the last picture, used to support a green roof but otherwise is unchanged and the end behind the posts at the seafront end was essentially a car-park on match days. Not that I ever went but those ornate turnstiles feature in childhood memories for some reason - possibly to watch something like 'It's a Knockout' there or something similar. Of Chris Roberts hairbrained schemes, TUFC at the Rec, could have been quite exciting, right by the station and seafront, and a move to Plainmoor may have breathed a bit of life into the Tics. There is no rugby culture in Torquay, although why it has been overtaken by much more junior clubs in Brixham, Newton Abbot, Teignmouth and even Kingsbridge in recent years, is a mystery. Perhaps the club's refusal to contemplate the professional era did for it. Perhaps a fairly disparate local populace compared to say the tighter communities of Brixham or Exmouth (where the town has two thriving rugby clubs), means there is no support for, or interest, in rugby. You imagine in say, Brixham, most youngsters, at some point, come across the rugby club and the same would probably be true in Exmouth. In Torquay, it was probably only the grammar school that took rugby seriously and many of the ex-pupils from there would have moved away. Torquay has four secondary schools - any focus on one particular sport can be diluted, whereas in Brixham and Exmouth, with just one school, kids probably have less chance of avoiding it, if rugby has a dominant theme, which in a fisherman's town, or a town also linked to fishing as well as the armed forces, the tougher sport of rugby may have more appeal. Wildly, sweeping in terms of generalisations but a possible theory. When I was a pupil at Churston many years ago, the autumn term was the rugby term. We were not permitted to play football until the spring term. With a high percentage of pupils from Brixham, I am sure this early exposure led many of them to play rugby over football. Several of my ex-school friends who are now Facebook friends are still avid BRFC supporters, over 40 years later. Actually, it was the same at Audley Park as well. Rugby was played in the Autumn Term and that's when the schools played each other. During my final two years at Audley Park, PE groups were organised by Maths groups. I was in the top set (which admittedly, wasn't that difficult to be in at Audley Park!!!) and a lot of my maths cohort were not what you would describe as sporty, so when playing rugby against them, in PE, it was easy to stand out. I wasn't a keen rugby player or fan at all at that age, but I did enough in PE to impress my teacher who suggested I go for the school rugby team - it would be a good career move, he suggested. It wasn't for me though, and I declined his offer. Whilst I was quick and fairly nifty-toed and may have made a reasonable wing, I was not especially big or brutish and I just knew that rugby had lots of players who were and that I had only stood out in PE, simply because I was playing against the kids who were more interested in the ZX Spectrum, than a rugby ball. Plus, I was only really interested in football. Now that, in later life, I have developed an appreciation of the oval ball game, I do regret not giving it a go because, perhaps even I, could get a game for Torquay Athletic, seeing how bad they are these days. |
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Post by stefano on Oct 23, 2014 21:45:36 GMT
I'm looking at the details of the 1963/64 All Blacks tour of the British Isles; thirty games between October 23 and February 15. Fixtures at Bristol, Bournemouth and Exeter; another four in France; two in Canada. ... and I was there as an eyewitness to the All Blacks playing South West Counties at the County Ground. November 1963 at the age of 11. I was told this was real sport and that I had no need to go to Plainmoor to see Torquay United beat Chester 5-0 on that very same day! Really only remember somebody called Sharpe who was a blonde Cornishman on the right wing, the All Blacks jumping up and down for no apparent reason before the kick off, the All Blacks winning, and an absolutely massive crowd (I had not of course at that stage experienced 9th January 1965 at Plainmoor - well I wouldn't have would I? It hadn't happened yet!). Mind you an enjoyable and memorable experience. It must have been, I'm repeating it now! Same as others posting, I was at Homelands and we were rugby in the September to December term and then football after Christmas. As I remember it all schools were the same and we played inter school games at rugby or football depending what term it was. Normally the same players in both teams at my school as we only had 60 pupils per year, so we didn't want those porky ones getting involved! Football was a second class citizen at our school mind. Our sports master was called Alan Harris (a decent bloke),a Welshman and a Torquay Athletic first team player. Soccer? You're having a laugh. I can remember him ordering us all to go to a rugby game at the weekend and to produce evidence by way of the match programme that we had done so! Crazy, but we all did it. Who can imagine the spotty masses today trudging along like that? Would have to get out of bed first!  |
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Post by stuartB on Oct 23, 2014 21:46:40 GMT
Took to standing on the bend and wearing large swimming goggles so i wouldn't have to turn away for a second. Being 4ft nothing at the time, the bend was the only vantage point available to me. Swimming goggles! Nah, I opted for the girlie see through umbrella. Happy days... lol |
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hector
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Post by hector on Oct 23, 2014 21:51:30 GMT
As another Churston pupil of the 70's, what really pissed me off was that we played rugby in the Autumn term in any weather but when it was soccer in the Spring term the slightest hint of rain or cold and the pitches apparently became unplayable. So we either had to resort to the ankle deep grass on The Common (if we were lucky) or an indoor session in the gym (murder-ball or circuit training but never 5-a-side). Might have had something to do with the sports master. Rick Wooldridge was a rugby man (after his first love, Basketball) and played for The Tics for some years I believe. Others who helped with sports as a second subject to their own (Waldron, Wolsley, Bond)were a bit more football friendly. I have fond memories of Mr Bond in particular running around the pitch in his ancient blue tracksuit screaming abbreviated versions of boys' surnames! As a Paignton born lad who moved over to the Darkside (Brixham) at the age of ten, I do see where Barton is coming from with his description of the scenic and cultural differences between the two towns. I grew to love Brixham as a place to live and had many school friends who played for The Fishermen at Colts level and beyond. I was never so keen on the game or one for joining clubs and preferred to spend my time in informal kick-abouts on Furzeham Green. I used to hate going over to Brixham to play football against Brixham Grasshoppers. The changing room even had a big intimidating picture of a Grasshopper on it. They did become, though, fallen giants, in the era I played and even the rag-bag outfit, I ended up playing for, produced a shock result against Grasshoppers, with a 2-1 win. Seeing we had lost 3 games 19-0 earlier in the season prior to the match, it was quite a disgrace for them. |
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Post by stuartB on Oct 23, 2014 22:04:01 GMT
As another Churston pupil of the 70's, what really pissed me off was that we played rugby in the Autumn term in any weather but when it was soccer in the Spring term the slightest hint of rain or cold and the pitches apparently became unplayable. So we either had to resort to the ankle deep grass on The Common (if we were lucky) or an indoor session in the gym (murder-ball or circuit training but never 5-a-side). Might have had something to do with the sports master. Rick Wooldridge was a rugby man (after his first love, Basketball) and played for The Tics for some years I believe. Others who helped with sports as a second subject to their own (Waldron, Wolsley, Bond)were a bit more football friendly. I have fond memories of Mr Bond in particular running around the pitch in his ancient blue tracksuit screaming abbreviated versions of boys' surnames! As a Paignton born lad who moved over to the Darkside (Brixham) at the age of ten, I do see where Barton is coming from with his description of the scenic and cultural differences between the two towns. I grew to love Brixham as a place to live and had many school friends who played for The Fishermen at Colts level and beyond. I was never so keen on the game or one for joining clubs and preferred to spend my time in informal kick-abouts on Furzeham Green. I used to hate going over to Brixham to play football against Brixham Grasshoppers. The changing room even had a big intimidating picture of a Grasshopper on it. They did become, though, fallen giants, in the era I played and even the rag-bag outfit, I ended up playing for, produced a shock result against Grasshoppers, with a 2-1 win. Seeing we had lost 3 games 19-0 earlier in the season prior to the match, it was quite a disgrace for them. I played for the mighty Grasshoppers from aged 8 to 16. Bill Ivy, John Charles and Tony Quant were great coaches and gave many many hours of their personal time. My crowning glory was beating Torre Triojans at Plainmoor 2-0 to win the U15 TUFC Ex Pro Cup. My hero, Clint Boulton, presented me my winners medal which was brilliant |
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hector
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Post by hector on Oct 24, 2014 6:03:40 GMT
I used to hate going over to Brixham to play football against Brixham Grasshoppers. The changing room even had a big intimidating picture of a Grasshopper on it. They did become, though, fallen giants, in the era I played and even the rag-bag outfit, I ended up playing for, produced a shock result against Grasshoppers, with a 2-1 win. Seeing we had lost 3 games 19-0 earlier in the season prior to the match, it was quite a disgrace for them. I played for the mighty Grasshoppers from aged 8 to 16. Bill Ivy, John Charles and Tony Quant were great coaches and gave many many hours of their personal time. My crowning glory was beating Torre Triojans at Plainmoor 2-0 to win the U15 TUFC Ex Pro Cup. My hero, Clint Boulton, presented me my winners medal which was brilliant I played for Torre Trojans, sometime after you played against them, I suspect, Stuart, but they weren't that good when I played, although future Torquay keeper, Mark Coombe was in goal for us and Chris Myers later joined in midfield. We did, however, take a trip to London and played against a Chelsea youth team, in a fixture arranged by ex-Torre Trojans player, and at the time Chelsea player, Colin Lee. Mark Coombe stood out in that match, and as a sub, I was stood near the Chelsea coaches discussing how good he was and I think they monitored him for a while. The match was played in Bishops Park, on pitches behind the away end at Craven Cottage and 8 years later, I lived in Fulham and regularly walked through Bishops Park, reliving my cameo appearance against Chelsea's youngsters. We lost 5-0 but to be fair we had lost by a lot more to Buckland Athletic, so it actually felt like quite a good result, as we imagined a double-figure hammering before the game. |
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Post by gullone on Oct 24, 2014 14:57:19 GMT
An old postcard presumably taken at Queens Park ?  |
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hector
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Post by hector on Nov 17, 2014 22:37:58 GMT
In Neale Harvey's - normally fairly decent - column, in the Janner Indy, he writes about the demise of Plymouth Albion and Cornish Pirates.
It is interesting to note that as recently as 8 years ago, the 2nd tier of rugby had a top 6 finish of:
1. Harlequins
2. Bedford
3. Cornish Pirates
4. Rotherham
5. Plymouth Albion
6. Exeter Chiefs
Chiefs were getting gates of around 1,200 and playing at the county ground, whilst Pirates were double that and Albion, around 3,000.
An amazing scenario, now that Exeter are an established Premiership club, with even LV Cup games drawing over 10,000 spectators. It certainly shows where a compelling vision can take you.
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