A Legend Departs

In case you were wondering........

I'll freely admit to being a huge fan of the Plainmoor Spin Doctor. Just consider the bare bones that he had to work with regarding the recent loss of a main sponsor, yet with ingenious use of some terms and phrases, subtly repackaged it to read more like a good news story.

It showed a mastery of the dark arts that even an Alistair Campbell or Damian McBride would struggle to surpass, and even if the kids today no longer have media studies, I'd urge them to study his technique.

I've clearly been influenced more than I realised, as it was only after starting this thread that I checked the Official Site and saw the 'Manse To Rovers' story with a sub heading of 'A Legend Departs'. A total coincidence I assure you, however it should put me well in the running should the 'Master of Spin' position fall vacant in the future.

As of today, I think that's just about right and pretty close to my own sentiments.

Yet Alpine Joe is, of course, entirely correct to start a whole new thread as way of recording the end of Lee Mansell's Torquay United career. Or, at least, how it is constituted to date. Lee Mansell - in terms of contribution, influence and longevity - has been a hugely significant figure in the club's recent history.

Legend? I'd stop short of that on two counts. Firstly, it's an over-used term to the extent of becoming meaningless. Mansell, Sills, Hargreaves, Todd, Nicholson. They can't all be legends, surely? And secondly, even if you do wish to use the expression, I'd argue against it being applied to any more than 1-2% of all who have ever played for the club.

Lee Mansell, in my book, isn't in such elite company. But by extending that category to thirty or more players, and leaving out the stardust and dewy-eyed romanticism, you reach an important raft of players in which you can include Lee Mansell as a member.

Overall I suspect that, if you were to take a longer-term historical perspective of Lee Mansell's eight-years at Plainmoor, you'd probably split his time into three chunks: the first season; the next five; the final two.

Lee Mansell arrived at Plainmoor in 2006 having been a member of an Oxford team which had been relegated out of the Football League. I doubt Oxford were relegated because Mansell was in their team; nor did his inclusion cause our relegation the following year.

But, coming up to the age of twenty-five, that left Mansell as a top-end Conference player rather than middle-of-the-road League Two. It's a thin divide; he could have been either side. Yet he went on to have a pretty decent career as a Football League player. That's a testimony to him.

And, between 2007 and 2012, he was a all-round pretty decent performer. Firstly, he was important in helping us to return to the Football League. Secondly, he played a large part in our re-establishment as a Football League club. Thirdly, he was a key component of a team which reached the play-offs in successive seasons.

Had the clock stopped in 2012, I believe Mansell would have been fondly remembered even by those who have developed into becoming his harshest critics. Instead it's gone rather pear-shaped and, to listen to certain voices, Mansell almost saw out his time as the devil incarnate. Like much of what you hear, you try to weigh the "evidence". Hero or villain? To blame or blameless?

That's unfortunate. There's also retrospective questioning of the whole business of Lee Mansell's final two-year contract at Torquay United. My recollection is that, during the season he turned twenty-nine, Lee Mansell was playing the best football of his career. Consequently it was not unreasonable to offer him improved terms on that basis - nor for him to demand such - and, by going ahead, the club displayed a level of intent that we surely welcomed at the time. As somebody said to me recently, let's imagine the outcry had Lee Mansell disappeared in the direction of Plymouth or Exeter in the summer of 2012.

Recognising a footballer's diminishing value is one of the tricks of the trade. But it's not easy. Ideally you'd like to base a contract offer on (a) how the player performed last season and (b) how he'll do next season. Also what you offer at twenty-nine might be different to what's on the table at thirty-one.

I can understand the deal offered in 2012 made sense at the time (just as that of 2014 was probably a fair reflection of the player's current worth). Yet I guess history will record that Torquay United didn't get the best value out of Lee Mansell at the very time they were (allegedly) paying him the most money. That's regrettable but it's not unknown in football. At our club, especially when other players aren't offering good value, it's potentially catastrophic.

I suspect Lee Mansell - together with a few others - might prefer to rewrite last season. When he was relegated in 2006 and 2007 it may have been a case of "wrong place; wrong time". I'm sure 2014 will weigh more heavily around his neck and he will know that he was a central figure. But footballers, as ever, move on and soon become part of another club. That's why Bristolgull's observations strike a chord.

Alpine Joe, for his part, may be metamorphosing into a Master of Spin. But there's plenty of merit in his valedictory words. For me it boils down to a single question: was Lee Mansell a good signing?

Yes. I believe he was.

He is #morethanalegend apparently. Not too sure what the # is all about - maybe Chelston can explain it to me.

Ends up just short of the 400 appearances mark, sixth in the all-time list.

1 Hill, Kevin 474
2 Lewis, Dennis 473
3 Northcott, Tommy 443
4 Twitchin, Ian 436
5 Shaw, Ron 412
6 Mansell, Lee 391
7 Collins, Sammy 380
8 Bedeau, Tony 374
9 Mills, Don 367
10 Bettany, Colin 361
11 Hutchinson, Albert 342
12 Loram, Mark 332
13 Nicholson, Kevin 324
14 Pym, Ernie 307
15 Smith, Alan 303
16 Towers, Billy 292
17 Kelly, Tom 290
18 Cox, Geoff 286
19 Boulton, Clint 286
20 Woods, Steve 283

I am pleased for Manse. It seems to be the ideal move for him - near to his Gloucester roots, not too far from his mates in Torquay, a two-year deal (players of his age crave security). I would imagine he would be on considerably more than we offered him, but still considerably less than he was on last season.

I certainly wish him well. Over eight years, I would say he has given value for money - although the most highly paid seasons may not have corresponded with the best playing seasons. Barty has pretty much nailed where he stands in the TUFC history books.

I am actually quite pleased to see him go. It is difficult for a player to stay at a club after a huge pay cut, so that may or may not have been a problem. I get the impression that CH is going to go with a two-man midfield and I couldn't really see Mansell being the ideal partner for Young.

Although I am aware of his technical deficiencies, I have been a bit nonplussed by the level of hatred directed at him by a certain section of our fan base. Very strange.

Cap'n Manse  "What I will say is that it’s going to be a long hard season in what is a very tough league"


LINK - Legendary Cap'n Manse Comments On Pre Season At Rovers

midlandstufc



It's a very controversial subject, and I'm not sure it's one that it's wise to re-visit. Firstly we learned that The Home Office has 'misplaced' or destroyed a number of files that would make very interesting reading if they could be located:


 



Then yesterday, we learned of the fate of important files relating to alleged torture of suspects on the British territory of Diego Garcia :

'The British government has claimed that documents relating to the UK’s involvement in global rendition have been permanently damaged.

In a statement condemned by human rights groups as a ‘cover up’, Foreign Office minister Mark Simmonds told parliament that records of flights from Diego Garcia, a British territory in the Indian Ocean, had been destroyed due to water damage, and that the remaining records held by the government were “incomplete”.

Link - The Latest Set Of 'Missing' Files


So it dawned on me just how incendiary any discussion of The 2013 Seale Hayne Rebellion was when I put in a Freedom Of Information request to view the files, believed to be stored somewhere in Sheffield. Firstly I was told that they are subject to the 20 year rule, and was invited to re-submit my request in 2034 (by which time I'll be in my mid 40's). However, there is speculation that the whole Sheffield Gulls Archive was sold to The Guardian, and that they in turn passed the files on to Edward Snowden who has taken them to Moscow with him to provide a little light reading during the long cold winter evenings.  

Consequently I'll have to rely on memory alone for this one, and it's a pity I can't call on Lambethgull to explain the heady mix of revolutionary zeal and ideology. To give a political and historical context, Castro & Guevara weren't driven predominently by a desire to overthrow the Batista regime, with no real interest in what took over in it's place. Their overriding interest was in setting up a Socialist society. Lenin & Trotsky didn't have an end goal of seeing the Tzar overthrown, with indifference as to what type of regime stepped into the breach.... that was just a stepping stone towards establishing a Marxist society. Likewise Comrade Manse was idealogically driven towards fighting for the re-establishment of a Lingist Doctrine at Plainmoor, and the overthrow of the Knillists was only a necessary part of working towards the triumphant return of Respected Leader Ling. 

Just as Castro needed his comrades to help him emerge victorious at the Bay of Pigs, and just as Lenin needed the Russian proletariat to overthrow the Tzar in the February Revolution, before he could lead the final push a few months later, so Manse and Nico could only do so much themselves. If they've got the old regime out, and got things to the stage where Lingy submits his application and says he's willing to re-assume control, then they've more than played their part. In football terms they've beaten the opposition and dribbled the ball up to the goal line, it's been put on a plate and all anyone else needs to do is tap the ball into the empty net.

But, as we know, the 'new republic' not only turned it's back on the chance of a fresh Lingist future, but it also made clear within months that it wished to turn it's back on Comrade Manse as well. The Forums have not been short of those calling for Manse to be cast out of the Republic the moment the Summer weather arrived. The new regime's 'offer' to Comrade Manse also delivered a 'please leave' message rather than a 'please stay' one. The New Republic has chosen a different path, and rather than hanging around demanding a testimonial, the Hero of the Seale Hayne Rebellion leaves with his head held high, knowing that he could have done no more than he did to pave the way for a return to Lingism.

We may have foolishly forced them out, but some of us still continue to have the utmost respect for our revolutionary heroes whether they now be at Bristol or ....erm....Hornchurch.

Link - Lingy Plots Hornchurch Revolution

And I've tracked down the other one!

Link - KevNic


Hold on, that photo's been airbrushed!

Judas. Judas.