Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Nov 9, 2008 21:33:54 GMT
well hi forevertufc, you feel as strongly as I do about these matters and I would agree, the refs need to be stronger and take more action. Having players sent Off, will as you say force managers to get better control over their players, If they want to stand a chance Of keeping their jobs.
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Post by chrish on Nov 9, 2008 22:37:49 GMT
Chris, these are superb posts. That's the main thing to say really. Not sure if I've anything original to add but you really got me thinking about how fans around the world would differ when asked about the key issues. I'm sure you're right in speculating that British, Dutch and German responses would be broadly similar. In these, and other football parts of the world, fans would be keen not only to talk about the way the game is played - with quite differing opinions - but they'd also want to discuss the way the game is run, how it is reported, how and where it is watched, etc, etc. In short, in these places the game is part of culture. To use the worn cliche: it's more than just a game. Elsewhere, as you say, FIFA is seeking to expand the game. For many years it was almost part of a head-to-head tussle with basketball (we're probably the last country to appreciate the influence of the NBA throughout the world - that is basketball, isn't it?). The USA aside - where the Hispanic population still looks South of the Border for its fix - I do think football has made some progress in Canada, Australia and New Zealand (the women's U17 World Cup in NZ is getting almost as much coverage as the netball at the moment!). For sure it's limited but, listening to Internet radio, the Premier League is gaining much more coverage in these countries than when I visited them. Significant numbers of people there could probably now debate the way the game is played but, I guess, the cultural stuff would be beyond them (and may never happen). In this sense it's probably similar to talking football with people in this country who have a bit of interest - but not a great deal - in football at the same time as being interested in rugby and tennis and golf and cricket and, if it's on Eurosport, pole sitting from Eindhoven. Not sure what I'm trying to say but it is a more than a game in some places; just a game amongst games in others. But, as you say, the rules have to apply across the world. I think your last paragraph sums it up very nicely. We have a completely unique situation in England where in addition to football being the major game (or more than a game), cricket, rugby union and rugby league are widely played and followed by traditional fan bases. All of these games have changed over the years in order to make them more attractive to new fans. With football its more to do with the infrastructure (new stadiums) and a more dynamic league structure to maximise its attractiveness to investment either by big business or to attract a load of new fans from a slightly higher socio economic group with a larger disposable income. The actual game format hasn't changed that much although when I first started watching it you could pass the ball back to the keeper and you only had one substitute, foreign players were mostly Dutch or Scandinavian and were few and far between. I always found it quaint that so many dutch players ended up at Ipswich. I had a theory that players like Arnold Muhren, Frans Thijssen and Romeo Zondervan only joined because they could always hop back on the ferry to Hoek Van Holland if they ran out of potatoes or chocolate sprinkles. Rugby League have done something similar by modernising the league structure with moving the season to the summer and by copying the same structure as the Australian NRL. Rugby Union has become professional and gets more television exposure than it did before. Cricket has created several different formats in order to maximise its revenue from its wide fan base. I think its fair to say the the people who go to watch 20/20 matches aren't the same ones who sleep at Arundel during county championship matches. The thing about football is that its the purest form of sport in the world. There are not many rules, there is no set way from getting from A to B and the game is supposed to flow. As you point out, its a very direct representation of national identity and the stereotypes that go with it. No other sport comes anywhere near this and this is football's unique selling point. The fact that it can get so embedded into everyday life can also be its Achilles heel. FIFA have gradually made small changes to the rules in order to make it more attractive to watch and cut out some of the negativity but I think that they've gone too far. Tune into a match of the day and see how much hysteria you hear during a game when an opposition player dares to tackle one of theirs. Whether its because of the rule changes or because that there are more new fans from a non traditional fan base is anybody's guess. As I've said before on here I admire the German Bundesliga. The clubs are very well supported, the fans are from traditional fan bases and they are in turn treated very well by the clubs.I think that there's one or two isolated incidents over here where Premiership clubs have given something back to the fans. West Brom have made season ticket prices very low and I hear that Bolton Wanderers laid on all the coaches for away travel to Hull yesterday. I guess these are isolated because over here its all about money and success. Whether or not its going to be sustainable in the long term is anyone's guess. |
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Post by daveshaw on Nov 10, 2008 2:46:19 GMT
Hmmm, i guess it's a question of perspective. I was happy as larry when Owen dived for that pen against the Argies, but spitting feathers over the "hand of god". Laughing my socks off when Sills upset the greeks but would have been furious if one of their players had done the same. Does it pay to be ethical in football? No, it depends on whether your team profit from it or not.
So, i think cheating is absolutely fine as long as we do it and get away with it. If anyone cheats against us i want them strung up!
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merse
TFF member
Posts: 2,684
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Post by merse on Nov 10, 2008 3:52:01 GMT
.............when I first started watching it you could pass the ball back to the keeper and you only had one substitute, foreign players were mostly Dutch or Scandinavian  Well long after I started, the keepers used to run and bounce the ball like basketball players, some wore turtle neck woollen sweaters and hardly ever wore gloves. The only "subs" were the ones we coughed up to get a game and a foreign player was a Scotsman! Now the ruddy ball bounces on it's own, there's so many subs in an FA Cup tie they've had to be allocated the away fans seating, and there are so many pansies wearing gloves and (you've guessed it) turtle necks under their shirts they look like Private Pike in Dad's Army!- boo, hiss!!!! Mind you, a Scotsman's STILL a bloody foreigner!  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2008 17:39:11 GMT
Dave shaw you can't have it both ways, how can you say its fine for us to cheat and you would be mad if a team cheated against us. cheating should not happen and needs to be stopped wheres roberts and his fair play when you need him  |
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