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Post by aussie on Aug 17, 2011 18:12:43 GMT
You`ve lost me on that one, I can`t see the similarity as Stefanos point is based on fact! Or did this innocent victim do something to piss the criminal off and therefore deserved his establishment destroying? I repeat " I don`t get it"!I would say not. The shopkeeper had his morality and chose his path in life; the burglar had his and chose his. My guess is the shopkeeper will pull through. So it`s all the shop keepers fault then and he fully deserved it! Sorry still don`t get it!
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Post by aussie on Aug 17, 2011 18:15:31 GMT
You could equally say that to the shopkeeper - the reality of the situation is that while he may have lost his business, he will probably still have a comfortable life. Which is more than can be said for thousands of other people living in the same city, rioter or otherwise. It's all about perspective So rioting because you are envious and jealous of other peoples hard work is acceptable? Where the hells the perspective? There is none!
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Post by lambethgull on Aug 17, 2011 18:18:25 GMT
I would say not. The shopkeeper had his morality and chose his path in life; the burglar had his and chose his. My guess is the shopkeeper will pull through. So it`s all the shop keepers fault then and he fully deserved it! Sorry still don`t get it! 'Fault' has nothing to do with it. Capitalism is about winners and losers. You place your bets, you take your chances.
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Aug 17, 2011 18:20:04 GMT
I didn't say anything about envy or jealousy. More the point that we are led to feel sorry for the ones that'll be OK at the end of this rather than the ones whose lives are genuinely ruined. Just because people make mistakes doesn't mean we shouldn't feel sorry for them
I caught a bit of Five Live Drive today while I was out and there was a story about a former heroin addict who became a Christian while he was in jail, and is now a pastor and has written a successful book. Food for thought...
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Aug 17, 2011 18:25:57 GMT
So it`s all the shop keepers fault then Which shop keeper we talking about?
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Post by aussie on Aug 17, 2011 18:35:13 GMT
So it`s all the shop keepers fault then and he fully deserved it! Sorry still don`t get it! 'Fault' has nothing to do with it. Capitalism is about winners and losers. You place your bets, you take your chances. So it was an `anti-capitalist riot`then was it? Still don`t get it!
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Post by lambethgull on Aug 17, 2011 18:38:04 GMT
On the contrary, it was a very capitalist riot.
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Post by aussie on Aug 17, 2011 18:52:32 GMT
I didn't say anything about envy or jealousy. More the point that we are led to feel sorry for the ones that'll be OK at the end of this rather than the ones whose lives are genuinely ruined. Just because people make mistakes doesn't mean we shouldn't feel sorry for them I caught a bit of Five Live Drive today while I was out and there was a story about a former heroin addict who became a Christian while he was in jail, and is now a pastor and has written a successful book. Food for thought... You insinuated jealously and envey in your apparent justification of why some people acted the way they did. So someone that has worked all the hours God sends to make a living and have something to retire on means they shouldn`t be given any sympathy for what they have lost? And I really struggle to feel sorry for someone who kills an old man for putting out a fire, as I do for someone that torches a flat that one of their own stuggling nieghbours lived in and had to jump out the window from the first floor to save her own life! I read about about that clergeyman and he didn`t set out to harm anyone but himself to fall the wrong side of the law, quite a poor analogy really as he was a junkie with no hope until he fell the wrong side of the law, this in it`s self shocked him into `hearing vioces` and seeking the church, he did steal to get what he wanted or needed but that`s the only comparison here and doing time has one way or another taught him to be a law abiding citizen. Taking advantage of an oportunity, as in the riots, is a little bit different to passive shop lifting and you have seen the difference in the sentencing handed out to looters. This is why their called `looters` and not `shoplifters`! With any luck some of these rioters and looters will maybe learn to change their ways now or at least after they too have don` a stretch!
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Post by aussie on Aug 17, 2011 18:53:48 GMT
On the contrary, it was a very capitalist riot. Where the hell are you coming from, you`ve confused f*ck out out me! Istill don`t get it!
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Aug 17, 2011 19:21:01 GMT
I think we're arguing to a stand-still here, Aus. As I said earlier, ultimately this comes down to what we believe and I know we have very differing views on this so probably best to just agree to disagree here
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Post by Father Jack on Aug 17, 2011 20:08:48 GMT
It all boils down to thieving sh1ts getting their hands on what they can, expecting no consequences for their actions, and casual destruction of property without a second thought. It seems to be commonplace nowadays and can be seen in the low level anti-social behaviour around any town centre or down the seafront. With no consequences, it is inevitable that the seriousness of offences will escalate with time. A sharp shock and deterrent would work wonders IMO..
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Post by Father Jack on Aug 17, 2011 20:10:52 GMT
On the contrary, it was a very capitalist riot. Where the hell are you coming from, you`ve confused f*ck out out me! Istill don`t get it! Probably means all the acquisition of property that was going on
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Post by Father Jack on Aug 17, 2011 20:20:35 GMT
Thought some of the punishments were a bit on the harsh side. 4 years for thinking about rioting? Not really Chelston. The tariff is 1 to 5 years for what they were charged with (according to reports). The lawyers/bleeding hearts etc are moaning that they should receive a lesser term for having no previous/pleading guilty etc. They forget about the extenuating circumstances though. Hope the cretins do the full 4 years though. A bit of time as "Bubba's toastrack" should persuade them of the errors of their ways... I dont think anyones actually been charged with riot yet though? Its all lesser, easy to prove, charges so far.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2011 20:32:07 GMT
Father Jack
Well done Father Jack. After disappointing me with your inabilities to appreciate the mercurial skills of Danny (Daniesta) Stevens, at least you've got a reasonable grasp of the riot situation.
Lambethgull knows his capitalism & is well aware that seeing a decent return on your investment is half the battle. Now getting those theiving little scrotes to invest 40 hours hard graft each week which would only see them get a return of a low or moderate wage by London standards is a non starter, they're going to lay in bed all morning & wander down to the dole office once a fortnight.
However... when they see an investment opportunity more to their liking they'll jump at it. Invest two minutes of your time ( to kick in the shop window) & in 'return' you get a plasma TV pocketfuls of mobile phones & new trainers to help you run home even faster with your 'loot'.
Little Capitalists the lot of them, but as the stock market always warns its punters 'your investments can go down as well as up'. Plenty have done well out of it & are reclining on their sofas in their stolen designer gear & commenting on the great picture from the new telly.
Those less shrewd 'investors' who forgot to wear their balaclavas & smiled up at the CCTV didn't fair so well, but hey..there's always next time.
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Post by Father Jack on Aug 17, 2011 20:48:10 GMT
Father Jack Well done Father Jack. After disappointing me with your inabilities to appreciate the mercurial skills of Danny (Daniesta) Stevens, at least you've got a reasonable grasp of the riot situation. If he was to display those skills on a more regular basis than he has over the last 2 seasons, I would happily appreciate them.
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