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Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Nov 14, 2010 18:05:24 GMT
I definately agree with your points, Stoner81. It is frustrating to watch the balls being pumped-long and our attackers being completely unable to bring it down and bring others into play (because our strikers are not those sort of players). Does Bucks pass the message-out to the players to take this approach, or do they take it because there are no other options available to them due to well marshalled opposition? Who knows, but I could clearly see him trying to get us to play with more width against Morecambe when they went 1-0 down and down to 10 men but until the second half there was very little sign of that.
Until Bucks can shuffle his pack with some exits then we are not in a position to bring-in anything other than young players on-loan from bigger clubs that probably do not cost us very much. I would expect that in the January transfer window we would see Gritts return to Chesterfield - it's a shame that it hasn't worked-out because of his contributions here in the past but that is football. Without knowing as to how much we are contributing towards his wages then whether his return makes any difference or not to the budgget remains to be seen.
I think the sort of players that we were linked with before the announcement that the budget had been cut were the sorts of players that could have given some real options. However, at the time Kee wasn't anywhere near ready to start - he has started to show some of his ability but is still very much work in progress but we are still missing that "extra dimension".
As Chelstongull rightly says, we are not getting the sort of crowds that allows us to bring in players earning big money for this level - imagine the sort of -players that we could bring-in if Bucks had that sort of money - I can't imagine that those 3 players would give you much change out of £4k per week as loanees (and probably closer to double that in their combined earnings).
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Post by Ditmar van Nostrilboy on Nov 14, 2010 19:17:03 GMT
I can't remember the last time one of our strikers scored a headed goal from a cross and there is nothing wrong with scoring goals this way. Both Benyon goals away at Lincoln? I think the big problem against Barnet was the midfield being too lightweight. It just goes to show how much Zebs was missed. Manse was trying his best to cover everything but received little assistance from Wroe, Stevens or OKane, all of whom looked out of their depth TBH. Yes it was a nicely worked goal from Stevens-Kee-OKane & Benyon but that was about it for the "creative" midfield. The problem up front is that Benyon and Kee are both the same kind of player needing it into feet to be most effective. That means a ball winner/holdup type of striker to play alongside them and they will score hatfuls (pretty much the way Kabba was playing yesterday). I thought the defence stood firm albeit with a couple of shakey moments but both Robbo and Nico did well considering the lack of support from their wingers. Robbo in particular was up against probably the best 2 Barnet players on the day. Yes it was a bad day at the office for us but im sure the Chesterfield and Bury supporters are equally critical of their teams, having lost to opposition they were both expected to win comfortably against...
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Post by stoner81 on Nov 14, 2010 19:24:14 GMT
I can't remember the last time one of our strikers scored a headed goal from a cross and there is nothing wrong with scoring goals this way. Both Benyon goals away at Lincoln? Yep, think you're right. One from a Nicho free-kick and the other from Zebs cross on the break.
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Post by stuartB on Nov 14, 2010 20:56:33 GMT
According to our beloved chairman, it is Buckle's idea for the music but hopefully it won't be repeated after the number of complaints he had to field. Officials were terrible I think the players thought it was going to be easy when we carved them up for the first goal. We did not hassle and press like we normally do and just stood off them and let them play
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Post by aussie on Nov 15, 2010 7:01:58 GMT
Maybe Wroe needs reminding where the door is to bring the best out of him again!
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Post by Budleigh on Nov 15, 2010 8:36:44 GMT
Without wishing to sound like I'm defending a poor, frustrating performance, for that is what it was; but having spoken to a couple of the Barnet guys before the game it was apparent that thay are not as bad a side as their results and position make out. This was not just their viewpoint but that of a number of their opponents this season who have been surprised after a game against them as to how well they actually play.
There was also a lot of frustration amongst the United players afterwards that they didn't seem to be able to 'open the door' against teams such as Barnet and they were keen to get in on Monday and work out why. These boys were mightly disappointed and wanted to sort it out as soon as possible.
I see this attitude as a good sign.
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Post by alunmeerkat on Nov 15, 2010 11:31:54 GMT
Budleigh - how can you actually "deduce" that Barnet are not as bad as their league position suggests by speaking to their players. Did they perhaps tell you that they were "unlucky" when they lost 7-0 or perhaps have had a terrible referee in every away game this season. Plain fact is they looked a shambles in the first quarter of an hour but truth be told we let them back in the game and made them look a whole lot better than they really are.
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Post by Budleigh on Nov 15, 2010 12:55:18 GMT
It wasn't their players I had spoken to...
Perhaps I worded it incorrectly. I should've put it that they, those representing Barnet, believe their performances have, at times this season, merited more of a reward and that the feedback that they've received from others after certain games was that the club were better than their position suggested.
It was more an observation from the opposition than from myself.
Apologies.
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chelstongull
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Post by chelstongull on Nov 15, 2010 13:18:33 GMT
I didn't think they were such a bad team (Kabba and Marshall would walk into our team tomorrow) or was it a case of us playing not that well thay made them look good?
Me I believe it's a bad day at the office and normal service will be resumed on Saturday.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Nov 15, 2010 16:27:38 GMT
Without wishing to sound like I'm defending a poor, frustrating performance, for that is what it was; but having spoken to a couple of the Barnet guys before the game it was apparent that thay are not as bad a side as their results and position make out. We are a better team than our league position suggests, is the sort of statement a manager will make after a game for two reasons. One is to try and keep the fans believing and two is to try and keep the players believing results will soon turn the other way. Teams that are at the bottom of the table are there because in the games they played in the other team were better on the day or made their own luck and won the game as a result of doing just that. Yes its always said teams at the bottom never get any luck but is that really the case? they let in a very late goal but that's not down to bad luck, they failed to defend right to the end of the game. They hit the crossbar in the last minute, but thats not bad luck is it? no simply they failed to get the ball into the net when they had the chance. The key word you used Leigh was the wood POOR. We played a team who has only picked up on single point on the road and the question is if we had not had played so poorly, would they have got their second point at Plainmoor? I was not at the game but have read the match reports and just finished reading Dave Thomas's report. He said it was a good job the game was not played in front of the camera's as not only was the game a bad advert for second division football, it was a bad advert for Torquay United. Paul Buckle said our only good move was the one for our goal and their keeper only had to make one save during the second half. When a team does not get the expected result you so often hear how much better the other team really was, that may well be true but it can't really be used when your team simply were rubbish on the day. Reading the reports it seems we were content to lob long high balls up to our forwards, fine if you have the right sort of forwards that can deal with such balls, the problem is we don't. I have always believed the only way to win any game is to play to the strengths of the players you have out on the pitch. No good hoofing the ball up high to Benyon as he is not going to win the ball full stop. When we had Hilly in the side our keeper would kick the ball high out to where he was standing, knowing Hilly would more than likely win the header, well you could not do that if say Danny Stevens was out on the wing. A manager knows the team he is going to put out and must play the style those players do best playing and it also helps playing players in their best positions. Such performances at home games will do nothing to help get more bums on seats and instead of statement's being made that the other team were not as bad as their league position suggests, statements should be made about what Bucks is going to do to get the performances from the players that they are more than capable of producing.
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Post by Budleigh on Nov 15, 2010 17:01:03 GMT
Surely it is okay to express an opinion that our team were poor AND to put forward the feeling that the team with which we drew the game are actually better than their league status would indicate?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Nov 15, 2010 17:06:53 GMT
Surely it is okay to express an opinion that our team were poor AND to put forward the feeling that the team with which we drew the game are actually better than their league status would indicate? Yes it is but I feel its only being said to try and deflect from our teams performance. For me its never about how good or bad the other team play, or where they should be in the league table, only how good we play and the performance our players give out on the pitch.
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Post by Budleigh on Nov 15, 2010 17:20:30 GMT
I was expressing the opinion that we were poor on the day and our performance was frustrating against a team bottom of the table; but then also added that we were playing a team that, by accounts given to me by those with a greater knowledge of Barnet and who had seen all their games this season, were not always getting the rub of the green and have actually been playing better than their bottom position would suggest. It wasn't trying to deflect from our game but adding a balance to the debate using a little added information that I had gleaned.
I would put a bet on now that Barnet will be well clear of the relegation places come May.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Nov 15, 2010 17:37:21 GMT
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Nov 15, 2010 19:13:55 GMT
Your going to have to forgive me here Leigh as it may just be a case of me showing what a thick old Devon boy I am but. I can understand the need to bring balance into the argument if we played well and failed to beat a team we were expected too. To then say they are a better side than their league position suggests in my view would be just fine. I just fail to see how that fact could be used to bring any balance into this when if fact we played poorly.
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