merse
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Post by merse on Aug 25, 2010 22:28:26 GMT
talk about jumping to conclusions! who says I am a rabid tory?  Was it not YOU who said you would vote for them in the General Election? Did they retain their deposite in your constituency this time then Stuart?  |
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Post by stuartB on Aug 25, 2010 22:31:10 GMT
What we need is fairness. whether this is appropriate taxation for the highest earners or sorting out the benefit cheats that we all know about, it needs to be done.
for far to long people have taken the piss by not paying their way in tax or claiming for something that they are not entitled to. So who do you reckon evade the most tax in this country...................your average working class family or big institutions like banks and major conglomerates? I guess you should do what you tell everyone else to do and read what i wrote. All I said was that it should be fair and did not direct this at anyone in particular group Of course the highest earners evade mor and therefore we need to close the loopholes and make sure everyone pays their way |
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Post by stuartB on Aug 25, 2010 22:32:42 GMT
talk about jumping to conclusions! who says I am a rabid tory? Was it not YOU who said you would vote for them in the General Election? Did they retain their deposite in your constituency this time then Stuart? just because someone votes a particular way does not make them a rabid this or a rabid that. people vote for different parties for many different reasonsw |
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merse
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Post by merse on Aug 25, 2010 22:38:09 GMT
Is the answer The Marshall Plan? I wish I'd paid attention more in History lessons. If you had, you might recall that the USA, as the only major allied power not to suffer debillitating and ruinous war damage to it's infrastructure and industry; promoted the ERP (European Recovery Programme) that was the forerunner of the EEC as we know it today and to which the Conservative Party was so opposed. It was the Labour Party that entered into it on behalf of this country, a proper socialist, labour movement; not a Johhnycomelately "New Labour" Tory vote catching apology of a movement! |
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merse
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Post by merse on Aug 25, 2010 22:44:13 GMT
....................and it was the right wing of American politics; The Republican Party (the very same party of Ronald Reagan and George Bush & Son) who brought about it's demise in order to fund their Korean War in 1953. So, The Marshall Plan that did so much to kick start the economy of a ruined Europe was effectively opposed by the right wing parties of this country and the USA.
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keyberrygull
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Post by keyberrygull on Aug 27, 2010 20:51:31 GMT
talk about jumping to conclusions! who says I am a rabid tory? Was it not YOU who said you would vote for them in the General Election? Did they retain their deposite in your constituency this time then Stuart? It was me along with another 10 million + |
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Post by lambethgull on Aug 27, 2010 21:46:13 GMT
It was the Labour Party that entered into it on behalf of this country, a proper socialist, labour movement; not a Johhnycomelately "New Labour" Tory vote catching apology of a movement! Opposition to European integration within Labour has traditionally come from the left of the party though, hasn't it? (though for different reasons to the Eurosceptic wing of the Conservative Party). No governing party has ever been more integrationist than Tony Blair and his New Labour. |
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merse
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Post by merse on Aug 27, 2010 22:05:42 GMT
Opposition to European integration within Labour has traditionally come from the left of the party though, hasn't it? (though for different reasons to the Eurosceptic wing of the Conservative Party).
No governing party has ever been more integrationist than Tony Blair and his New Labour. I wouldn't argue with you on that point Lambeth, but those "left Wingers" within the latter day Labour Party would have been holding down membership within their own Communist and other Socialist parties in 1948. Blairs' New Labour integrationalist? Certainly, so much so that throughout their thirteen years of power they failed to repeal most of Thatcher's anti union legislation, so by default they integrated with the Conservative Party didn't they! |
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keyberrygull
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Post by keyberrygull on Aug 27, 2010 22:15:25 GMT
Opposition to European integration within Labour has traditionally come from the left of the party though, hasn't it? (though for different reasons to the Eurosceptic wing of the Conservative Party).
No governing party has ever been more integrationist than Tony Blair and his New Labour. I wouldn't argue with you on that point Lambeth, but those "left Wingers" within the latter day Labour Party would have been holding down membership within their own Communist and other Socialist parties in 1948. Blairs' New Labour integrationalist? Certainly, so much so that throughout their thirteen years of power they failed to repeal most of Thatcher's anti union legislation, so by default they integrated with the Conservative Party didn't they! If you want to live in a society with a socialist MP move to London, if you want to live in a society with a socialist government why not move to North Korea. |
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merse
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Post by merse on Aug 27, 2010 22:23:32 GMT
I wouldn't say NK is "Socialist" more like Totalitarian surely. Let's hear what those who have actually been there have to say about it................there must be one or two on here.
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Post by lambethgull on Aug 27, 2010 22:43:12 GMT
Opposition to European integration within Labour has traditionally come from the left of the party though, hasn't it? (though for different reasons to the Eurosceptic wing of the Conservative Party).
No governing party has ever been more integrationist than Tony Blair and his New Labour. I wouldn't argue with you on that point Lambeth, but those "left Wingers" within the latter day Labour Party would have been holding down membership within their own Communist and other Socialist parties in 1948. True for some perhaps, but the likes of Michael Foot and Tony Benn (to name two of the most prominent opponents of European economic integration within Labour), were Labour Party men. You won't get me defending Tony Blair or New Labour, but it cannot be denied that they were enthusiastic proponents of European integration...as are certain sections of the Conservative Party. |
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keyberrygull
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Post by keyberrygull on Aug 27, 2010 22:53:20 GMT
I wouldn't say NK is "Socialist" more like Totalitarian surely. Let's hear what those who have actually been there have to say about it................there must be one or two on here. Sorry mate but that was the only one that came to mind. Where are the other socialist nations then? |
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merse
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Post by merse on Aug 28, 2010 9:38:29 GMT
I wouldn't say NK is "Socialist" more like Totalitarian surely.Let's hear what those who have actually been there have to say about it................there must be one or two on here. Well for a start I would say my definition of a Socialist Society mirrors those of Tony Benn and Michael Foote in that they are basically Parliamentarians and champion that hard fought (through Civil War and endless political battles) right of the people of this country. They and I define Socialism as advocating an end to private property ownership, and the exploitation of workers for profit. A society where all "investment" is done for the common good of society rather than as a "monetry gamble" based on speculation and motives of profit. I am confident that neither them nor I would see Socialism as a halfway house between Capitalism and Communism. The hackneyed war cry of the right wing is to label the left wing "Communist". This is based on age old failure to research and take on board the very different philosophies of say Marx and Engells and those of the French Revolutionaries. Even the Nazis had the nerve to call themselves "Nationalist Socialists" ~ and that's where the term "Nazi" came from................you can't be more diametrically opposed to Socialism than Fascism can you! Given my view of socialism, I would therefore submit any country that has democratically elected a Socialist party as their government to be a "Socialist Country" in the truest terms of the word, and therefore THIS country has been Socialist in it's time as has France, Spain, Italy and Portugal. Popular socialist policies have been laid down and followed by the Scandinavian people for many years in their history and I would also define "my brand of Socialism" as being led from below, rather than led from above. i.e. when the working people and majority of the country choose to vote a socialist party into power, rather than have hard line socialist or communist policies foisted upon them by the leadership who then hold onto power by severely restricting free speech, free movement and free thought.................there is a clear difference therefore, between a Socialist country in Western Europe and North Korea. |
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