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Post by chrish on Jul 12, 2010 18:22:13 GMT
Well, yet another very poor World Cup Final. I think we have to go back to 1982 and Italy's 3-1 win against West Germany or 1986 and Argentina's memorable 3-2 over West Germany for the last decent final. In 1990 both Semi Final matches completely outshone the Final. The 1994 final was completely forgettable. In 1998 the French beat a Ronaldo-less Brazil who were in no frame of mind to play a football match. In Japan a half decent Brazil beat a very average German side and in Germany 4 years later, the Zidane Bull charge at Materazzi eclipsed anything else in the match.
I feel quite sorry for the South Africans. They hosted a very well organised tournament which was a credit to Africa in general but unfortunately for them only a few teams and a few players turned up and matched their level of commitment. The first world cup in Africa should've been a memorable tournament but it'll only be remembered for anti-climaxes and the odd decent game here and there. In 64 games I don't think that there were 10 which you would class as good games. Is the problem because there are too many teams "competing" at the World Cup Finals? Are they too many sub standard teams (albeit with a decent grasp of tactics) who just plan to stifle the better teams from playing?
It's worth noting that the current number of teams who participate in World Cup Finals now stands at 32. This was changed from 24 in before France 1998. This was increased from 16 teams to 24 teams for Espana 82. Obviously to go hand in hand with this has been an increase in the number of Venues. From 5 (Mexico 1970) to 6 (Argentina 1978) to a ridiculous 17 in Espana 1982. Mexico 86 and Italia 90 had 12 venues each. 9 at USA 94. 10 at France 98 while the jointly hosted Japan/South Korea finals had 20 different venues. Then it's levelled out at 10 venues for Germany and South Africa.
I can't help thinking that there are too many games and too many sub standard teams at the world cup. There are 208 FIFA affiliated teams, 204 of which tried to qualify for South Africa 2010. Plucky as New Zealand were in obtaining 3 points, their qualifying group comprised of themselves, New Caledonia, Fuji and Vanuatu before beating Bahrain in the play off to qualify. These 3 teams earned the right to join New Zealand in the later stage by competing in the South Pacific Cup 2007 which included such sides as the David Essex inspired Tahiti, Soloman Islands, Cook Islands, Tonga and Samoa. Bottom of each group were Tuvalu (who aren't FIFA members) and our dear old friends American Samoa who in their 4 group games scored 1 goal and conceeded 38!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2010 18:42:28 GMT
and of course 2016 will see the first European Championships with 24 teams - not far short of half UEFA's 53 strong membership.
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Post by chrish on Jul 12, 2010 19:01:51 GMT
and of course 2016 will see the first European Championships with 24 teams - not far short of half UEFA's 53 strong membership. 16 is bad enough, 24 is an absolute disgrace. It's just another case of UEFA maximising revenue. The Champions League is the most poorly named competition in the world and if you fail at that you can go into the Europa Cup, which is a decent competition, but UEFA have devalued this by bunging in the likes of Liverpool when they failed miserably.
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Post by ospelgull on Jul 12, 2010 19:22:56 GMT
So, in summary, I disagree entirely with your suggestion that "Any team would have reacted in the same manner at such "injustice"". I don't believe many other teams would see it as an injustice. At such a crucial time in the most important game a footballer can play, any player would 'snap' for a moment. When a referee influences the game and this leads to a goal. I wonder how you would react if it happend to our beloves TUFC in a play-off final at Wembley? So I think we'll never agree on this one. Spain are deserved champions, now roll on another season of League Two football!
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Post by ospelgull on Jul 12, 2010 19:27:42 GMT
Johan Cruyff had this to say: 'Their play was ugly, hard, brutal and much to defensive'. 'Poor play and very little football in the game plan'
'You play anti-football if you think it's the only way to beat an opponent. Holland played well for 20 minutes and for the rest switched to kicking and provocation'.
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Post by lambethgull on Jul 12, 2010 19:33:43 GMT
Cruyff should realise by now that you play with what you've got. Maybe he'd have felt better if the Dutch'd lost 4-0, but I suspect he'd be as delighted as the next man if they'd've taken it to pens and won. You summed things up for me, Osepelgull...bring on the League 2 season, with it's soggy, frosty games played under dim lights......and if any oaf decides to bring a vezuvela
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Post by chrish on Jul 12, 2010 19:40:13 GMT
Cruyffshould realise by now that you play with what you've got. Maybe he'd have felt better if the Dutch'd lost 4-0, but I suspect he'd be as delighted as the next man if they'd've taken it to pens and won. You summed things up for me,Osepelgull...bring on the League 2 season with it's soggy, frosty games played under dim lights......and if any oaf decides to bring a vezuvela > You know there will be Vuvuzelas and they'll be played by the usual suspects/idiots. I'm trying to find a nice hour long recording of them as the sound blocks out the daft tart in the flat below when she invites her mates around for Pinot Grigio and a "Sex and the City" talk. Every cloud has a silver lining.
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Post by lambethgull on Jul 12, 2010 19:51:04 GMT
You know there will be Vuvuzelas and they'll be played by the usual suspects/idiots. I'm trying to find a nice hour long recording of them as the sound blocks out the daft tart in the flat below when she invites her mates around for Pinot Grigio and a "Sex and the City" talk. Every cloud has a silver lining. Good grief...something to put on 'loop' when those enticing northern away games hove into view ;D
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jul 12, 2010 20:01:42 GMT
If your football mad and just happen to believe it’s the best game in the world ever, you are bound to be so looking forward to what should be the best and biggest football event and even more so when you have had to wait four years since it last took place.
You might also be expecting to see football of the very highest quality, after all the teams competing are made up of the very best players in each country and would you might think, be better than any club team regardless of the league or country they play in.
Weeks before the start of the world cup you find yourself checking out the dates of all the fixtures, and then look to see just how you can work your daily life around so that you can get to see all or as many games as you possible can.
Well that’s how it was for me anyway and after just the first few games I found I really was not enjoying the world cup half as much as I expected, I think to begin with it was just that terrible noise that to someone who has only ever watched football in this country just sounded so unfootball like.
It’s the sort of noise that can slowly grind you down if you let it and I ended up just telling myself it was the sound of the African world cup and I should just except that fact and try not to pay to much attention to it, or listen that hard. To be fair after so many games those blowing them seemed to get the hang of them so much better and dare I say almost got some sort of tune out of them that was far better than the one single notes we heard in the earlier games
Still after the first few games I was not to bothered about watching many more of the group stage games and therefore missed some of them, there were some I fancied watching and only ended up disappointed as the game never lived up to my expectations.
Then when your own team goes up in the manner ours did, you feel flat and while you don’t really want to not watch anymore of the world cup, it has something missing once your team as caught the plane back home.
I made sure I watched all the quarter and semi-final games as at least the knockout stages do have the opportunity of providing drama and as was the case with the Ghana game and its also important when you watch the final to see how the two remaining teams played in those knockout games to help you decide which team you feel should end of as the winners of the world cup.
I have to agree with others it is not the best world cup I have ever watched, but Africa did a wonderful job staging it all and as I heard nothing on the news about any real fan problems as has been the case in so many other large competitions before, it must surely go down as a world cup that was watched and enjoyed in the sprite it should have been and not turned into any excuse for mass street fights etc.
The biggest and very best thing it do was to unite a nation and as you know I really did not know very much about the history if Africa( know a bit more now thanks to Merse and Barton) but I firmly believe what ever differences there were and may still be after the world cup, during it the whole of Africa was united, you only had to see how the whole nation got behind Ghana when it was the only African county left in the world cup, if you were in any doubts.
Sadly it had a very sad ending for me with the news that 74 people were killed watching the World Cup final in Kampala in Uganda, I have read and tried to understand the reasons this terrorist group has given for carrying out such a cowardly attack and have really struggled to really undersand any of it, all I know is that as a peace lover and someone who would not hurt a fly, I really don’t know how others can take the lives of other human beings.
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merse
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Post by merse on Jul 12, 2010 20:10:20 GMT
Al we want now is for the marketing genius who organised the mass selling of the Vuvuzela to follow this up with an anal World Cup Pesciary sculptured like a hedgehog!
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Rags
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Post by Rags on Jul 13, 2010 6:04:11 GMT
So, in summary, I disagree entirely with your suggestion that "Any team would have reacted in the same manner at such "injustice"". I don't believe many other teams would see it as an injustice. At such a crucial time in the most important game a footballer can play, any player would 'snap' for a moment. When a referee influences the game and this leads to a goal. I wonder how you would react if it happend to our beloves TUFC in a play-off final at Wembley? So I think we'll never agree on this one. Spain are deserved champions, now roll on another season of League Two football! I see, so you're still clinging to the belief that the goal was a direct result of the referee getting a decision wrong, then? If it happened to our beloved TUFC in a play off final, I'd probably say that we had the ball back afterwards, and had myriad chances to clear when we subsequently lost the ball again, so I can't really complain. Maybe we'll get the chance to test this theory out in May 2011 if our automatic promotion hopes go up in smoke! ;D
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Post by ospelgull on Jul 13, 2010 6:44:18 GMT
I see, so you're still clinging to the belief that the goal was a direct result of the referee getting a decision wrong, then? If it happened to our beloved TUFC in a play off final, I'd probably say that we had the ball back afterwards, and had myriad chances to clear when we subsequently lost the ball again, so I can't really complain. Maybe we'll get the chance to test this theory out in May 2011 if our automatic promotion hopes go up in smoke! ;D Rags, never did I say that it was a direct result of a wrong decision by the referee? Off course the Dutch had enough chances to clear the ball. You could just blame Van der Vaart for not clearing the ball properly. It's just a lot easier to accept that a player made a crucial mistake instead of the referee. It won't happen in 2011 as we'll be going up automatically. ;D
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Rags
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Post by Rags on Jul 13, 2010 7:56:40 GMT
I was chatting to a friend of mine yesterday about the World Cup and why we both hadn't enjoyed it particularly. We were both adamant that it was down to a tangible drop in quality and not just because our misty memories remember the old ones so much better. We decided there were a couple of major reasons. The first is that there are too many teams. Although it is great to see plucky New Zealand leave the World Cup unbeaten, they were no better then Prem relegation/Championship level. Now, we can all look back on Haiti in 1974 and have a laugh at how bad the bad teams have always been, but when you have 32 teams in a competition it stands to reason that there will be a fair number of teams who are not going to be good enough. 64 matches in a tournament is too many, especially when some of those matches are going to be between two average to poor teams. By the time we get to the Quarter Finals, most fans have become a bit jaded by all the football that they have watched. Fine for those who pick and choose their games, but for the real fan who is compelled to watch as many games as possible: well, it's like eating 3 bars of 70% cocoa chocolate in one go! Bring it back to 24, drop 6 European teams if it is important to spread the tournament around the world and keep as many Asia/Oceanic/Concacaf teams as there are currently. I don't have a problem with 3 or 4 teams as poor as New Zealand (and they weren't the worst) being in the World Cup finals, it's when there are 8 or 9 that I start to object. Secondly, we reckon that the element of surprise has gone. Back in the day when the majority of South American players were new to us and both African and Asian players were unheard of it was great to see how the different styles of football fared against each other. Stereotyping the "Latin" football of the Argentinians against the dour, workmanlike football of some European team was fascinating. Seeing which new star the Brazilians would unveil was always enjoyable. But these days the vast majority of the players play in Europe and we see them all the time in the Champions League. Taking aside Germany who do seem to recruit predominately from the Bundesliga, which has something like 76% German nationals playing in it, there can't have been many games at all during this World Cup where there were no club team-mates on opposing sides. All the best South Americans play in Spain, Italy or the Prem; virtually all the African players play in Europe. The J-League is very strong, accounting for the majority of Asian players but there are still plenty of them playing in Europe. For football fans who watch a lot of European football, there can't have been a single player who made a positive impression during this World Cup who was unknown. All this adds up to the fact that games are no longer played between strangers, and that every manager/coach knows exactly how their opponents are going to play before the game. The result is that the better coaches know how to counteract the opposition's strengths and can "level the playing field" before the game starts. If anything club sides are often better than the National sides, probably more due to the relative levels of coaching. You could argue that two of the best three coaches in the world are club managers (Mourinho and Guardiola) and they will create teams who are better than any National side. Taking the best players and putting them in a team doesn't work unless they are organised and tactically aware. We're never going to know if Barcelon are better than Spain for obvious reasons, but I'd like to see Spain versus Inter! My mate also reckoned that the games were a lot duller with nowhere near as many goals as in previous WC's. He's right, with Spain being the lowest scoring World Champions ever and the goals per game being the second lowest ever, but I disagree. With the increase in tactical awareness and the proliferation of different formations, I found some of the closer games enthralling. I know the German v Spain semi final was a turn off for many but I was captivated by the relative tactical games being played by Low and Del Bosque. Low showed himself to be tactically astute throughout the tournament: able to isolate his opposition's strengths and set tactics not just to negate them but also to showcase his own team's strengths. Germany's 4-0 win over Argentina was not just about breaking the supply chain between midfield and the front three of Messi, Tevez and Higuain, but also to apply pressure to the weakness on the right side of Argentina's defence, time and time again. Germany's last three goals were all scored in the same way: attack in numbers down the left wing in order to bring out an Argentinian central defender in support, then play the ball into the resulting gap for any number of German forwards (or Freidrich!) to hit it home. Simple but very effective. Finally, neither of us are bothered by England going out. In fact, our enjoyment of the World Cup increased once England had been sent home and I have a great many friends who agree. It's not that I don't like England or want to support them; it's all to do with the unbearable pressure placed on my brain by the UK media, print and broadcast. Lambethgull made it very clear what our National side was like way back in March: No proven goalkeeper, one scandal-ridden, slow centre back, another hair-brained centre-back, no fit left back, no proven right-back, an out-of-form Lampard/Gerrard, no proven left or right winger...........just one (albeit very in form) striker of exceptional quality, who has no strike partner. yet all the hype in this country has been about how great we are and how John Terry, er Rio Ferdinand, er Steven Gerrard is going to lift the World Cup. It's been relentless. I still believe that had Slovenia tried harder for a win against us they could have got it, or a draw at the very least, and we would have been knocked out at the group stage. I don't actually mind us not being particularly good as much as I hate the delusion throughout all walks of English society that we are great. I've been to the World Cups in 2002 and 2006 and on both occasions I kept as far away from England games and England fans as I was able to. I'd love England to do well at the next World Cup but I'd like our nation to be humble a lot more. But overall, no, not a great World Cup. I'm looking forward to 2014 purely because it is in Brazil, but I'm not looking forward to 2018 even if it does end up being held here in England.
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