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Post by daveshaw on Sept 7, 2008 15:14:11 GMT
I think that we now have to deal with the obvious. Buckle has to go now. We won FFS! But how can we feel happy with that performance against a team that has been tonked by pub teams. Enough, please enough, get this manager out.
I'm interested to hear from the deluded sheep who will still back this idiot.
Sean, what's your opinion? You've been quite vocal/aggressive in your support. Fair play to you, you've put your money where your mouth is. But even you can't be happy with that. From a commercial viewpoint do you think it was money well spent?
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Post by capitalgull on Sept 7, 2008 15:20:14 GMT
Clueless pathetic and inept - and that's not you Dave S! Downright shameful performance, but as Merse has already told me, three points is three points and Paul Buckle's position should obviously not be in jeopardy because of it! I am not posting a match report because I can find nothng really positive to say, and in that instance it is better for me to say nothing and avoid the wrath of the happy clappers, whose reaction to the victory on the Pop Side was nothing less than startling, only seconds after the Buckle out chants started. Fickle finger of fate that the referee provided - albeit quite rightly - unlike the two cast-iron penalties he refused to give the Northwich forwards.
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Post by bitemebryn on Sept 7, 2008 15:26:25 GMT
Clueless pathetic and inept - and that's not you Dave S! Downright shameful performance, but as Merse has already told me, three points is three points and Paul Buckle's position should obviously not be in jeopardy because of it! I am not posting a match report because I can find nothng really positive to say, and in that instance it is better for me to say nothing and avoid the wrath of the happy clappers, whose reaction to the victory on the Pop Side was nothing less than startling, only seconds after the Buckle out chants started. Fickle finger of fate that the referee provided - albeit quite rightly - unlike the two cast-iron penalties he refused to give the Northwich forwards. Hear hear That was by no means a corner turned, we beat the team bottom of the league JUST. 3 points, yes great, performance, no improvement and nobody should be glossing over that display.
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merse
TFF member
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Post by merse on Sept 7, 2008 15:37:23 GMT
Good job Tim Sills can be a real man and keep his head whilst wittering little people like Dave Shaw fall apart under pressure. I guess you followed the game on BBC Devon as I did Dave, did you not pay attention to what we were told by another REAL professional - Kevin Hill? Today was only ever going to be about getting a result and we got it.................there's no bonus point for style, you don't get one knocked off for being lucky. Maybe that was the wheel of fortune beginning to turn after those successive last minute disappointments in the last two matches. Go one up, early doors and the pressure lifts. Concede an equaliser and it's back on again. It effects the players just as it effects you. Cool heads like Sills carry yelping little quitters like you. It's what carries football teams, armies and governments through in times of crisis. Take defeat or disappointment with a degree of dignity and rise above it. Likewise take a victory with a degree of humility and you'll not go far wrong. That reaction from you right on the final whistle is just pure immature tantrum throwing.
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Post by jonesy on Sept 7, 2008 15:56:29 GMT
Yes we won. yes we got the 3 points. But we struggled against the bottom side of the league and were gifted the 3 points by a refereeing decision that even our players hardly appealed for. Buckle does not inspire confidence in the fans and some of his players. His choice to play Thompson at right back instead of Mansell in the second half was a poor decision. The man has no plan B when things go against him. All the people stood by me on the Pop side could see Northwich's equaliser happening due to our lack of taking chances. it was the same against York and Ebbsfleet. It wass bizarre coming out of Plainmoor. Hardly anyone was talking about the much needed 3 points but the fact that the clueless Buckle would still be in charge.
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Post by daveshaw on Sept 7, 2008 15:58:52 GMT
Almost fell off my chair laughing at that one merse. How can you still be on side? It's not the last game but the last 30. You can't seriously defend Buckle. I know you are, obviously, far more "in the know" (always wanted to do that self important patronising bold typing thing,but can't work out how), but for goodness sake even someone as brown nosed as you can't support this. Of course i can be accused of knee jerking or even immature tantrum throwing. But i've been saying the same thing for a while now. So at least i'm consistant. I've been knee jerking for 30 games. Merse, give it up mate. You're only going to look foolish when we're proved right. It actually gives me no pleasure to say that. What's your solution then? More of the same or dealing with the problem? (They call that type of question a double bind mate)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2008 16:00:18 GMT
my friend who was at the game just talked to me on the fone and said it was real rubbish he also said he got to talk with nico and todd before the game. he said they were very unhappy at being dropped all is not well in the club but buckle lives to fight another day.
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Post by bitemebryn on Sept 7, 2008 16:12:30 GMT
my friend who was at the game just talked to me on the fone and said it was real rubbish he also said he got to talk with nico and todd before the game. he said they were very unhappy at being dropped all is not well in the club but buckle lives to fight another day. To be fair Dart no player is ever going to be happy at being dropped, and if they are worth their salt they should keep their opinions to themselves and just get on with things, unless they are trying to force deeper matters into the open, which is still pretty unprofessional.
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Post by witneygull on Sept 7, 2008 16:16:33 GMT
There may be no bonus points for style, but it does a hell of a lot for the confidence of players, fans and the board to put in a good performance and stick 4 or 5 past the bottom club without a win all season.
Deal with a defeat with humility, a win with good grace, and if you realise you're not up to the job, have the decency to resign before you turn a bad start into a disaster.
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merse
TFF member
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Post by merse on Sept 7, 2008 16:25:06 GMT
What's your solution then? More of the same or dealing with the problem? (They call that type of question a double bind mate) My "solution"? If I was Chairman I'd be talking on a regular basis to MY manager and doing my utmost to relieve the pressure on him. I would be standing shoulder to shoulder with him..................Paul Buckle doesn't need reminding that his job depends on results, he also doesn't need reminding that the jobs(and hence the bread winning capabilities) of Sean North and Kenny Veysey, to name but two depend on whether or not he survives - that's REAL pressure. If I was Paul Buckle I would be encouraging the players to keep on doing things MY way and to encourage them to analyse their performances and how they sea change under pressure. As Hilly expanded on the radio this afternoon, there's a very thin line between success and failure. IF your first touch of the game is a good one, you are relaxed and hence confident. IF it is a bad one..................... IF you can relax and play your natural game, then the chances of success are much greater than if you're worrying and looking over your shoulder. Some people need to realise that tonight we stand just two wins off a play of place and three wins off the top, instead of two off the bottom. It's called half full instead of half empty, it's focusing on what CAN be achieved rather than what hasn't; it's the only way when you are in the shit and someone like me would be much more use to you in a crisis than someone like you who'd be running and screaming in a panic not knowing what to do except quit or throw their rifle in the air. That's not rose tinting or being delusional, it's fighting with your backs against the wall.............if it got people out of trouble at Dunkirk and the Battle of Britain, it'll do for a little old football club. Just don't EVER give up, and don't be afraid to win ugly!
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Post by witneygull on Sept 7, 2008 16:38:07 GMT
I am struggling to see what this famed "Buckle Way" of playing is. If it is a Leroy style passing game, ball on the floor, threaded balls to split defenses or letting the wings do the work (As we saw at the start of last season), then I am sorry, we just do not have the players in the squad with the skill, pace or in some cases, the motivation. The other way he plays is the long ball to Sills which certainly isn't pretty, but if it gets goals, who really cares. But without a strike partner for Sills now Phillips has left, just who has been brought in to replace him?
Either Buckle hasn't got the tactical ability to turn the squad he has got into a winning unit, or he hasn't got the ability to identify and recruit players with the skills to play in "his" way. Whichever it is, I cannot really see him lasting much longer unless something drastic happens very quickly.
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Post by bitemebryn on Sept 7, 2008 16:38:09 GMT
Not sure how comparing warfare situations to running football clubs and taking penalties compares, but ifs thats how you see it then well, says a lot about how you perceive pressure and man management.
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Post by daveshaw on Sept 7, 2008 16:45:31 GMT
Actually merse you are being delusional. No one has suggested giving up. As for the dunkirk spirit and throwing your rifle in the air. I think management techniques have moved on a bit from the jurassic period. My grandad would be proud of you tho. This is about having the management skills to recognise your weaknesses, identify your strengths and adapt accordingly. Which our manager seems unable to do. He's had the opportunity, backing financially and the support to get it right but failed. It is time for our board to show their skills by making tough decisions. On the other hand maybe we should just blindly follow our leader "over the top" (damn, wish i could do that bold writing thing).
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petef
Match Room Manager
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Post by petef on Sept 7, 2008 17:19:50 GMT
My first live match or should I say dead match! Looking about me before the KO and all I could see in front of me were the fifty plus die-hards looking miserable and disillusioned even before a ball was kicked, then suddenly I realise to my horror ----I am one of them! Over forty years I have supported the club rarely missing a game. My God I wish I had missed this one. As a "remote" supporter for the last couple of months and being slightly detached from the reality of it all you somehow refuse to believe that what is being written about "my team" can possibly be all true. Well today confirmed my worst fears that its actually much much worse than I had possibly imagined. From the sad sight of a potentially doomed Paul Buckle developing a nasty and seemingly involuntary nervous pacing the touchline tick, to the sight of Wayne Carlisle on numerous occasions receiving the ball in acres of space and hoisting the ball into a long distance orbit, totally unwilling to take a defender on or attempt a simple pass. You just know its bad when on many occasions in the second half every single human shape including our right winger were compacted into the oppositions left hand corner. This myth that the only problem is that Buckle has his tactical knickers in a twist and we have a very talented squad is as far from the truth as could ever be. The plain fact of the matter is that the majority of this squad assembled by Buckle and financially supported by a very generous board would look poor in the Blue Square South at the moment. Hodges is plainly to old and well past his sell by date but he has to play him because there is no real alternative though I believe Nicholson is a better alternative. Carlisle is appallingly poor and for whatever reason, has yet to be dropped or taken off.Why? Thompson isn't a full back and we very nearly paid for another stupid Buckle decision to play him there when he let in there winger in on a number of occasions and nearly giving away a penalty in the process that some refs would have given. Towards the end I think Mansell swapped to fullback with Thompson pushed into midfield - a decision they may have even made amongst themselves. Green, especially first half I thought was one of the plus points today I could definitely see glimpses of talent and an eye for goal Benyon also did well but the lack of real support from midfield in and around the box is glaringly obvious . Mansell is the only one with the legs and energy and Hargreaves just cannot get about the pitch as well as he used to. Nothing pesonal but Carlisle is a complete waste of space. Nothing whatsover in way of a threat or support comes from the wingbacks on either side. There is also to much reliance on the wingers getting back and having to defend. Sad to say but there is only one way this manager is going the way things are and It would need a minor miricle for him to turn this around. Footnote: If the club realy want to get rid of the few fans reamaing they should continue with the dreadful halftime 100 decibell singalong of Uncle Tom Cobley. Unbearable even with your fingers in your ears!
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Post by capitalgull on Sept 7, 2008 17:23:55 GMT
Merse, everything you say about taking what comes your way, winning ugly and finally getting some luck, I would agree with almost 100% but what you said about pressure lifting off when you score an early goal has to be argued with.
At that point in the game, Torquay were the only team in it, and what did we do to lift the pressure off us even further? That's right - not a bloody thing. You've got a captain in Chris Hargreaves who proceded to get involved in an argument with Elliott Benyon over a mis-placed pass; you've got a striker in Matt Green who is afraid to get involved in the game and believe me was offside more often than your old friend Alan Connell; you've got a left-back in Lee Hodges who relied on Mustapha Carayol more than once to get him out of trouble - this Torquay Unites team does not have an ounce of killer instinct.
Although Northwich were a dreadful side, with two centre-backs who took 15 minutes to turn, we failed to press home the advantage - that comes down to a complete lack of coaching. You've got Buckle and North stood on the sidelines arms crossed providing nothing in the way of encouragement - not a thing! When a team should be going for the jugular the only person on the pitch trying to get more out of his team-mates is Lee Mansell - and he deserves credit galore for it.
On the opposite side, you've got Dino Maamria continually encouraging his players, trying something different at half-time, causing us all sorts of problems, and you've got a superb professional in Lee Steele getting in amongst the opposition. What I would give for him in a TUFC shirt alongside Tim Sills at the moment. He deserved his goal so much, and I for one was relieved when he limped off near the end - you could see physically the deflation in the Northwich camp when he came off.
I honestly feel sorry for Northwich after today, and I have to admit it's about time we had a little rub of the green, but I'm not going to get carried away by that kind of performance.
Was nice to see Crooky for the first time in ages at half-time though.
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