Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 3, 2008 16:01:58 GMT
So what is all this nonsense I keep reading on here from the likes of Merse, that football can’t be played properly in the BSP?
Who watched the game on TV last night between York and Mansfield.
Last season I found myself starting to go along with those who felt, that if by playing hoof ball was the only means to get out of the BSP, then so be it. I have said many times I fail to understand why, Torquay have failed to play any good football since it has been in the BSP. I know Aldershot played football, as did Burton and even Exeter, so why not us?
I almost started agreeing with Merse, that maybe playing just the physical game, was now the only way forward, until we could get back into the league.
Well last night I watched a BSP game, full of good passing, players good on the ball, who then did something with it, not just look to get rid of it as soon as possible. I saw on touch football and defenders who ran up and down the pitch all night, giving the team so much more and getting good crosses into the box.
Football the way it was meant to be played and can be played in the BSP, if only you get the players to play to their strengths and in the correct positions.
I bet both sets of fans went home happy,knowing they had watched a good game of football and felt they were really glad they went to the match.
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Post by crispygull on Sept 3, 2008 16:33:32 GMT
I too watched the game on Setanta last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was end to end stuff with both sides really going for it - but it did leave me feeling a little frustrated that we dont appear to possess some of the ability within our squad that those two teams seemed to show in abundance last night.
Both teams seemed to have lots of pace within their sides. Wingers that were happy to go past people and put crosses in, and better still full backs who were able to do that as well! How long is it since we had full backs with genuine pace and a willingness to take players on and get to the bye line and cross?
I really think that a lot of our problems at the moment stem from a lack of pace down the wide areas - both teams had that last night. Clearly with Robertson at Right back and the "veteran" Hodges at Left back - we are going to struggle to get much going forward from them. Further forward, Carlisle does possess quality on the ball, but lacks the pace to go past his man, and whilst we persist with playing Stevens on the left side he will always tend to drift in rather than go down the line. Carayol undoubtedly has the pace and the ability to do it, but like a lot of wingers, has struggled to produce it on a consistent basis so far.
I also liked the willingness of the players from both sides to shoot on sight. Is it me, or dont we seem to have the players in the team these days who fancy having a pop from 25 or 30 yards anymore?
Looking on the bright side though, it was pleasing to remember that despite seeming a very decent side last night, we did manage to restrict York City to just the one shot on target last Thursday (albeit it went in grr!) - which given the amount of efforts they had on target last night (three headers in just one passage of play - all on target) was no mean feat.
Wouldnt it be great if not only we could get a win against Kiddy in front of the Setanta cameras tomorrow night, but if we could also do it with a bit of style. As far as I can remember, apart from the stirring second half comeback against Oxford and the part, even if ultimately it ended in a hugely disappointing defeat, we played in the thrilling top of the table battle with the Shots last season, we have generally not been too entertaining in front of their cameras. Lets hope we can change that tomorrow!
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 3, 2008 16:38:53 GMT
 You really are talking naively Dave..................so WE have not played ANY good football since entering the BSP? What utter bollox..................what trite nonsense and pure cloud cuckoo selective clap trap! You must have missed the games at Histon, Kidderminster, and Stevenage.............to name just three where we totally obliterated the HOME sides and played them off the park tanking FOURTEEN goals past them into the bargain. You must have missed the three goal thrashing of Aldershot on their OWN ground, or the three goal come back at Oxford? What about the FA Cup annihilation of Yeovil? Yes, there were poor days, there were also some bloody good days. "Football in the way it was meant to be played" my arse..............exactly how many points did York achieve last night? How many points did Mansfield achieve last night? I have NEVER said that physical football is the only way to play...............quote me where I have posted that. I DO say that to play directly and pragmatically is widespread in this league, I do say it is used by OUR club and I do say that it effective if played in the right manner. Playing directly and focus sing on getting the ball into your strikers is NOT hoofball - hoofball is mindlessly hoofing the ball not caring nor really selecting where you put that ball............................that is NOT the way OUR side play. I can assure you that Paul Buckle is very specific just where he wants those balls played - that it does not tie in with your preference is tough shit Dave. If you want to glory in airey fairey frippery over passing of the ball whilst the opposition duly funnel back into position, just make sure you are happy with just the ONE scoring chance York created all match at Plainmoor last week, or the ONE point and one goal they accrued from "playing football the way it was meant to be played" last night Dave ;D
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 3, 2008 16:54:22 GMT
Very little Merse, yes there have been some games that we have played well, but I think you will find there are far more where we have not. Check out andgulls tables on here, If you still wish to disagree.
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petef
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Post by petef on Sept 3, 2008 17:20:51 GMT
You will nearly always see an entertaining free flowing game when both teams are playing "without fear" unfortunately our lot look as if they are shaking in their boots especially in front of goal at the moment. The chopping and changing has done for us and we can only hope that the players will feel less inhibited on Thursday which is quite possible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2008 17:49:29 GMT
i watched the game it was good to watch and was very enjoyable i think torquay have not played much good football some games have been ok but most have been poor.
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Post by andygulls on Sept 3, 2008 20:58:44 GMT
Merse
With the exception of the Stevenage game all of the ones you referred to took place in the first half of the season, in fact by early November. The whole point about the debate here is that we were playing a different style of football at that time to that which is now being played and is not proving to be as successful in terms of results
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 3, 2008 21:20:12 GMT
I can assure you that Paul Buckle is very specific just where he wants those balls played - that it does not tie in with your preference is tough shit Dave. I don't care how specific the balls are Merse, Or even if they do or do not tie win with any preferences I may have, but answer me these question. Does it work? is it getting results? does it please the crowd? will it keep fans wanting to come back for more? If you can answer yes to anyone of those questions, you really need to ask who the naive one really is, because it sure is not me Merse |
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 4, 2008 2:45:26 GMT
I have said many times I fail to understand why, Torquay have failed to play any good football since it has been in the BSP. I know Aldershot played football, as did Burton and even Exeter, so why not us? I almost started agreeing with Merse, that maybe playing just the physical game, was now the only way forward, until we could get back into the league. Andygulls, it was Dave R who's statement highlighted above that I took issue with. A statement that simply isn't true and has been thrown in, as yet another urban myth along with "hoof ball" and "failed to entertain" as season long descriptions of our play last season. I'm perfectly aware of the change in approach and would suggest it coincided with the "second match" problems we encountered when the opposition showed somewhat greater ability to counter our early approach by pushing up on Nicholson and double marking Zebroski whilst getting much tighter generally on our midfield. That Buckle's riposte to this wasn't pretty I agree, but given the type of player he had signed, playing the game Dave reckons "the way football was meant to be played" was not really an option in the manager's opinion. He asked the question why WE didn't play in the manner of Aldershot, Exeter and Burton. Well it's quite simply that OUR manager opts to play the way that is virtually the same as Jimmy Quinn at Cambridge and Liam Daish at Ebbsfleet. Different managers play in different ways and construct their squads accordingly. The only way you'll see OUR team playing in the manner of the afore mentioned Aldershot, Exeter or Burton is to employ a manager who thinks in the manner of those club's bosses...................and by the way, I think it is being a bit selective to gloss over Aldershot's ability to close sides down and presure them into mistakes AND hit them with long direct passes (such as they did to us at Plainmoor) but then that wouldn't illustrate the "football the way it was meant to be played" argument. To argue that the type of football that Dave champions is the ONLY way to achieve success in the BSP is to ignore the way that both Dagenham and Accrington won promotion, Carlisle too and way before that Rushden & Diamonds also. Some teams (Exeter, Yeovil and Aldershot) have succeeded playing the "Dave R" way and some have failed ( Forest Green, Burton and York last season) Some have succeeded the way we play ( Rushden, Accrington, Carlisle and Dagenham) some haven't (ourselves, Ebbsfleet and Cambridge to name but three last season alone) The "Dave R" way is more entertaining I agree, but it doesn't guarantee success nor guarantee you won't get relegated either (witness our "glorious relegation" under Rosenior) and in reality to champion a change of footballing approach is to champion a change of manager because leopards don't change their spots and I can categorically say that having witnessed Buckle's attempts to get OUR side to play their way out from the back has resulted in a wave of criticism from the fans over playing players "out of position" such as I have not witnessed in several years. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 5, 2008 19:14:06 GMT
Merse I used google and then I looked on wikipedia, I simply can't find out anything about the Dave R way of playing football.In the first half of last season, I would not say we played really great football, but we did play a style that up until Xmas was getting results.
I'm sure you will agree, It was found wanting and once others knew it was the only way we could play, results started to dry up.You say that due to the players the manger signed playing football the proper way was not an option? So why sign players who are unable to play the game properly?
To state that playing proper football failed for Forest Green, Burton and York, is a bit of a joke surly? only two teams go up from the BSP, these teams did not fail, one team got the top spot, the other team only went up due to the play offs.
You do really need to get over Leroy, like it or not he gave us one of the best seasons we have ever had at Plainmoor. Quality football, from players Roy mac failed to get the best out of.
The reason why the wheels came of for Leroy was mostly not his fault, If only he could have had the support and funds Buckle has had, I think he would have kept us in Div 1.
So who's leopards spots can't change?I think you were referring to Buckle, so If you are, is this not a contradiction. ? you seem to be saying this is HIS stlye of play. So is it the manager who's style of play is what we have been getting last season. because you said because of the type of players signed he did not have an option.
Was not Paul at Exeter before he came here? was City playing hoofball while he was there? No I don't think so.Playing football the proper way will get more results than hoofball, It will keep fans entertained and keep them coming back for more.
You did not answer my questions so I will add them again
I don't care how specific the balls are Merse, Or even if they do or do not tie win with any preferences I may have, but answer me these question. Does it work? is it getting results? does it please the crowd? will it keep fans wanting to come back for more?
I think results and gates at this time show that the answer is no.
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jerry
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Post by jerry on Sept 5, 2008 20:09:42 GMT
Was not Paul at Exeter before he came here? was City playing hoofball while he was there? No I don't think so.Playing football the proper way will get more results than hoofball, It will keep fans entertained and keep them coming back for more. If you talk to Exeter fans you will find that is exactly what they were playing when Buckle was there! Only last season did Tisdale introduce a more easy on the eye approach! |
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Post by spagbol74 on Sept 5, 2008 20:13:03 GMT
Just goes to show Buckles ineptitude. I for one am glad I'm no longer part of the circus that once drew me to every game home & away.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 5, 2008 20:17:52 GMT
Was not Paul at Exeter before he came here? was City playing hoof ball while he was there? No I don't think so.Playing football the proper way will get more results than hoof ball, It will keep fans entertained and keep them coming back for more. If you talk to Exeter fans you will find that is exactly what they were playing when Buckle was there! Only last season did Tisdale introduce a more easy on the eye approach! Well If that was the case, then I will have to agree with Merse, that the style of play is Buckles way of playing the game, It would fully explain why attempts to play the style that was tried in our first games have failed. |
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jerry
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Post by jerry on Sept 5, 2008 20:30:04 GMT
Well If that was the case, then I will have to agree with Merse, that the style of play is Buckles way of playing the game, It would fully explain why attempts to play the style that was tried in our first games have failed. That's it exactly. Buckle felt pressured by criticism of our style into trying to play in a way that goes against his natural instincts. Not really surprising that he struggled, those same critics then leapt on his back at our poor early form and, again, he is pressured into reverting to what he knows best to try and keep his job! If people wanted a more expansive style of football they should have been more patient, such a dramatic change can't be achieved overnight! Unfortunately, there is no chance of such a change now as Buckle (quite understandably) won't be willing to take the risk of experimenting and losing his job. |
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Sept 5, 2008 20:33:35 GMT
Buckle himself has entered the style debate only a week ago, stating that he was ditching what he'd been trying in the first 5 games and reverting to what he termed a previous direct approach. I didn't notice too much difference.
Did anyone notice he referred to "Chris Woods" playing at centre-half on the Setanta coverage?
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You really are talking naively Dave..................so WE have not played ANY good football since entering the BSP? What utter bollox..................what trite nonsense and pure cloud cuckoo selective clap trap!