Should These People Be in Football?

Treating people in a civilised way (esp. those we despise or fear) isn't being 'softly-softly', it's living up to the standards by which we expect to be treated and judged ourselves.

I haven't once advocated that people convicted of serious offences shouldn't be punished or made to account for their actions. I've already said that I thought Lee Hughes' sentence was 'soft'.

What I'm not in favour of is bloodthirsty, irreversible sentences which take no account of the fact that all legal systems are fallible and prevent any chance of a person (wrongly convicted or otherwise) reintgrating into society once they have completed their sentence.

I see no inconsistency in davethegull's position. It's people who claim to abhor the state in most matters, yet give a free pass to it when it comes to matters of justice who confuse me.

I'm perfectly able to see your stance, I just don't agree with it.

If you imagine a person could reintegrate into society after a sentence served in conditions resembling a Japanese POW camp, I suggest you see a psychiatrist.

So nobody's ever been wrongly convicted of a serious offence then, loyalgull?

any lag will tell you,there all innocent in prison,didnt you know that?

Well there a few strong points of views that have been posted on this thread (thankfully without getting out of hand) and after reading all the views put forward, the question that jumps out at me is, do we teach criminals hard lessons in the hope they won’t want to offend again and go through such a hard time again, or do we treat them a bit more gently and concentre on trying to rehabilitate them and show them the errors of their way.

It is a hard question to answer and I know which one I would like to happen as we can all make mistakes and I have always firmly believed as long as the person who did paid the price and also truly regretted what they did and was deeply sorry, then in most cases they deserve another chance.

We know there are some crimes that do really anger us and I don’t need to list them as we all know the ones they are and when people believe the offender of such a crime is locked up in some nice prison cell with a DVD player and all the home comforts, they are going to get even madder.

When the offence is committed on a child, could the offender really be rehabilitated and one day be trusted back into society? In a perfect world you would like to think that could happen, but there will always be people who believe such offenders should be just put to death as the crime fully deserves them losing their life.

In this modern world of progress its far more easy in many cases to catch and prove someone committed the crime, such things as DNA do play a very big part, but its my view it has created a situation where an offender will these days possibly end up taking the life of the child they committed the crime on to try and destroy any evidence.

Would the knowledge that such an offence would carry the death penalty stop the crime being committed in the first place? You would like to think it would, but there would be a risk it might give the child involved a certain death sentence of their own as the offender would do anything not to get caught.

The fact is that many still do get caught and for that reason I would like to see the death penalty be the sentence if only to make them stop and think before they do commit the offence, it won’t stop them all, but I’m convinced it will stop some.

I do not have a criminal mind; I don’t know how criminals think and nor do all the do gooder’s who want to try and rehabilitate them, they can only use their own thought processes and they are mostly based on their own experiences. How many social workers have you met that did not have any children? I have met a few and how can they know and understand what real family life is all about? The chances are they were brought up in a good middle class family and they sure would have no experience of what life is really like for a poor working class family.

I believe it’s much the same for those who want to rehabilitate criminals; they have not been one themselves and the idea is just fine, only when the offender serves their time, life back outside is not really any different for them and they end up having to go back to their old life style. Re offending rates are very high so I don’t think it can be proved it works and therefore you do have to ask just what is the point.

I have made no secret on here my fear of not being in control of the exit, its why you will never get me onto a plane and why I don’t travel very much on public transport. I can sit in the little room with the door locked for an hour and have no problems, if when I went to open the door it would not open, and then I would be in a blind panic and have to break it down as I would feel I was trapped.

Its why I know I will never commit a crime, the fear of being locked up and in a cell that had a door I could not open when I wanted to, scares me so much and more than enough to make me think about each and everything I do and ensure as much as I can, I will never be in that situation.

Knowing that fact, you may then understand why I feel offenders should not be given nice prison cells and that they were given punishments that were so hard they really would think twice before ever offending again. But we know these days’ human rights get in the way of real justice and being able to give offenders lessons they really will learn from and won’t ever want to endure again.

Let’s be honest here, we all know the rules we have to live by and most of us do our best to live by them, the offenders are people who also know the same rules as we do, but decide not to live by them and therefore they rightly deserve to be punished. We have a right to be protected from those who do commit crimes against us, but sadly these days it is the victims who end up being forgotten about and the rights of the offender seemingly being more important.

I grew up in a world where there was real discipline in the home you lived, real discipline in the school you went to and real discipline displayed by the your local policeman. Did I grow up living in fear? NO, I grew up knowing there would always be real consequences to my actions and if I did wrong, then I could expect to receive a punishment that taught me a lesson I would not forget.

Was that really such a bad way? Has it scared me in some way for life? Or did it teach me right from wrong and as a result I have been a good citizen? I know the answer and its what I think is now so wrong with this world, why little Dave can’t even have his legs slapped anymore and should that happen then little Dave can just call Childline.

Young children now tell their parents just what rights they have and just what or what not a parent can do to them, its no wonder then these same children have no respect for hardly anyone as they grow up and run around our streets doing what ever they want as they know they can’t be touched and when they are old enough to appear in court, nine times out of ten they will walk out with no more than a warning, or some badge of honour strapped to their ankle

In my days growing up you were made very aware about a place called Borstal and you knew by how it was described to you that you never wanted to go there for sure. I know this may sound like scare tactics were used on children back then, but that was not the case and we were as Merse will agree I’m sure, happy children, but ones who knew the price we would have pay if we really were naughty children.

It’s why I sit with those who feel we need much harder punishments and ones that when the guy comes outs of prison he tells all the people he knows that they never want to go in there, not as it is now when they come out and say it was like a holiday camp.

Lambeth is right to say that sometimes innocent people do get convicted of a crime they did not commit, does it really happen that much these days with all that is needed to get a conviction? I believe far more walk away guilty because of some smart ass lawyer who used this or that loophole

If there were one hundred sex offenders and 10 did not commit a crime as they feared being hanged and therefore 10 children got to live and not be scared for life and 90 were hanged only just one was really innocent, would that be too a high a price to pay?

Wise words from someone who does know what he is talking about and surely a good prompt to end a debate that is now going round and round like a dog chasing it's tale.