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Post by buster on Aug 24, 2008 21:02:17 GMT
Sean
Difficult I know but you have to have belief in yourself and get on with it. An awful lot of things are being said. Some almost laughable, some know doubt hurtful. But sadly that is the nature of us humans. There will always be an element who want to criticise and be destructive rather than provide solutions and be constructive. I must say I havn`t read any posts on this site that have been more than just fans expressiong their own personal opinion and ideas. Basically its fans who want to sort the world out but who can`t get down to the same pub so use a computer instead.
buster
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Enzo
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Post by Enzo on Aug 24, 2008 21:16:01 GMT
Dave, May I suggest that you do indeed read all your posts on the "Buckle out" situation, I would start after the last minute equaliser for Histon. Thats when it started. "Axe to grind" yes I do think so, You have eluded to last season and the "Pigs Ear" on several occations. This is my oponion why would I want to withdraw my oponion. Sean Fans are entitled to debate team selection, recruitment and match tactics without being accused of having an axe to grind or having an agenda. That is what most people are doing. The personal stuff is uncalled for, but Buckle made a pigs ear of the tactics for the City games - in fact he made a pigs ear of the run in. He said himself that he would be judged on it. It is old news and I wish we could move on, but the problem is the same mistakes are being made this season. As a fan who forked out about 200 quid to see the game yesterday who didn't read the programme notes alongside directors, I and other fans are entitled to express an opinion on a website without you getting chopsy. Yesterday, I could sense that a couple of guys around me wanted us to lose because they have lost their faith in Buckle - there were critical even before the kick off and throughout the game - that is completely counter productive. But questioning tactics on a website is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. It will not achieve anything, granted, but it may just be more productive than kicking the dog. A couple on here keep referring to how professional the club is now with reference to the Rayner situation. If they have been so professional by not going public on the matter how on earth do a few on here seem to know EXACTLY what went on? Were you all present when some kind of incident took place? So a professional club does not go public on something, but starts a whispering campaign?? The professional approach in my opinion would have been to make a statement to the effect of "Simon Raynor did this on this date..............This is not up to the standards we at TUFC expect and he will not feature again for the club" ......and then it would have been even more professional to recruit an adequate and permanent replacement. Instead the issue rumbles on and on and is still being used as a stick to hit Buckle with.........Last season the club looked unprofessional when we had to make the climb down and get Rayner back - this season, even after a whole summer, we are still without an adequate and permanent replacement. Had Bateson and Rosenior done that some would have been very personal in their abuse. The short term problem with this new professional age is that at the moment our whole approach to squad strengthening, pre season, team selection and match tactics are looking the less professional than under the heinous Messrs Bateson and Rosenior. But at least the carvery is good.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Aug 24, 2008 21:17:49 GMT
Good for you Dave, given the choice I would do the same, Bank holidays should be spent with the family , no doubt your support will be sorely missed. Its only a matter of time until this team click, hopefully tomorrow. Keep the faith. Well I wonder what you mean by that remark Sean, this is not .net, I do not give personal abuse to my members and guess what, I won't allow it to be given to me. Seems you have a habit on wanting to pick fights with those running forums. Well it does not happen on here.
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Post by sean01 on Aug 24, 2008 21:32:26 GMT
Enzo,
I also forked out money yesterday, so you are not alone. You are correct with the point about certain fans have made their minds up already. How is that productive. I have no problem with debates about team selection tactics or any other thing concerning the football club, but the personal stuff is insulting. The Raynor situation is simple I am a director so am privvy to information. There is no whispering campaign from me.
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Post by sean01 on Aug 24, 2008 21:37:15 GMT
Dave,
I am really dissapointed with your response, I am not "picking a fight" with you or anyone on this forum. "Personal abuse" I have never abused you. I was being genuine.
Tell you what mate I wont post anymore.
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 24, 2008 21:40:38 GMT
Dave, I am really dissapointed with your response, I am not "picking a fight" with you or anyone on this forum. "Personal abuse" I have never abused you. I was being genuine. Tell you what mate I wont post anymore. That is your choice Sean, you would never be banned on here for having your say, I just felt the part I highlighted was you trying to make some remark that maybe the club would be better off without support like mine. You account is open and will remain so. Dave
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Post by jond on Aug 24, 2008 21:46:06 GMT
Sean
Good for you speaking up for your friend Paul Buckle.
What a shame that the only quasi official response to the Raynor business has been from what you have posted on this forum. Football thrives on rumour and speculation, usually from fans putting 2 and 2 together and making 8 because they are ignorant of the true facts. The esoteric team selection this season has fuelled unrest but there could be factors fans are not aware of (but perhaps you are) that would explain the team selection. Enzo is right, a more inclusive and more open approach to the relationship between club and supporters would stop ill informed comment, loyalty should never be taken for granted. Maybe PR has not been a priority in the spheres of business the owners have previously been involved in but football is different.
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Enzo
TFF member
Posts: 283
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Post by Enzo on Aug 24, 2008 21:52:54 GMT
Enzo, I also forked out money yesterday, so you are not alone. You are correct with the point about certain fans have made their minds up already. How is that productive. I have no problem with debates about team selection tactics or any other thing concerning the football club, but the personal stuff is insulting. The Raynor situation is simple I am a director so am privvy to information. There is no whispering campaign from me. As I alluded to in my post, it is not productive in the slightest.......and I agree with most of what you state above. However, I think that the fact that discussion of the goalkeeping situation still rumbles on now underlines the fact the the Rayner and post Rayner situation has not been handled that well by the club.
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Post by andygulls on Aug 24, 2008 21:53:59 GMT
Let me make it clear that in making this post I do NOT intend to be anti Buckle. I do not subscribe to booing at this stage of the season and will continue to be at Plainmoor offering support. Like others I have been supporting the Gulls for a long time (39 years) and the vast majority of that period has not been one of success. I don’t think anyone could level a charge of “glory hunter” at a fan of TUFC! There can be no doubt that there is a level of fan unrest. Let’s be certain that this unrest will be reflected in posts on the available fan forums, a fall in attendance (both home and away, many fans living across the country have not travelled to games as evidenced by the attendance at Crawley on Saturday) and sadly vocal expressions of displeasure at the ground. I think it is very difficult to judge the exact level of backing for our current manager. If it is an indication, then of 8 family and friends who might have taken in the game on Monday only 3 will be present, the rest do not believe it is worth making the effort to go! I have just got off the phone to my best mate and fellow Torquay fan who lives in Surrey. He has just got back from the USA but is struggling to keep interested and for the first time did not follw results whilst away. Buster makes an excellent point “Sport is like no other business. It is driven by the heart. Without this passion you would not see people spending hours on the motorway chasing a dream. Forums, fights and phone ins. Adults shouting at the TV and being plunged into the depths of despair or found screaming with joy. So the club must understand rational and irrational behaviour comes with running a club”. As last season progressed I thought I was no longer emotionally attached to the club in the way I had previously been. At the age of 46 I thought I had finally grown up. After the play off defeat to Exeter I realised that I was been wrong. I still cared and deeply. Why is it then that there is this negative feeling as expressed in the thread started by Stuartb? Some of it will be down to communication as others have mentioned in posts. Sean and Merse will be quick to tell us that we often comment from a position of ignorance. In some circumstances it is entirely proper that we are not given detail. However in my view it is appropriate for the manager to at least attempt to explain his thinking in terms of selection decisions in order that we might more fully understand what he is trying to achieve. The learned Merse thinks that PB is looking for a defensive unit that is capable of passing the ball. That may or may not be true, but if it is why extend the contract of Steve Woods and sign Ellis? Neither of those players is going to add to the passing game. If we at least understood the approach there would be less cause to be openly critical of the efforts being made to get things right. Given the lack of information and the lack of results at present it is to be expected that questions will be asked. Sean talked about factual based evidence and it is this that I think, explains why the negativity is so prevalent currently. Being a sad git I have gathered the data for all of the games for last season and the league games so far this season. I think the charts below demonstrate that the reason we feel a bit down is not just due to the results in the first few games of this season but reflects a gradual deterioration of form since October last year. The first chart shows the results (Won, Drawn and Lost) for a rolling 15 game period for all matches in all competitions. We stood at 67% won 20% Drawn and 13% Lost on the 11th October last year. After Saturdays game we are at 33.3% won 13.3% Drawn and 53.3% Lost and an obvious downward trend apparent. The second chart similarly reflects the goals scored as an average per game on a rolling 15 game period. In October last year we were scoring on average 2.67 goals per game conceding 1.53. After yesterday we still concede 1.53 per game but are now only scoring 1.07 per game. Again a downward trend is apparent over the period. Little wonder then that there is some discontent. This is a challenging time for PB and we should give support I am not one for frequent change, preferring stability BUT he does need to turn things around and sooner rather than later.
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Post by crooky on Aug 24, 2008 21:58:15 GMT
I feel I've got to stick up for Dave a little here. From what I've read from his comments the only derogatory crime you could charge him with would be his concerns regarding our style of football. Lets face it...I think you could probably find the vast majority GUILTY of that! Personally I really felt for Buckle on Saturday. He is obviously mindful of the fans dislike for the style of football and judging by his team line he is obviously trying to rectify that. I for one hope he does succeed in turning things around. Gut feeling...He has his work cut out.
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 24, 2008 22:11:28 GMT
Thanks for your pm Sean<I have changed my mind and won't put in on here as I said I would, it would not be a PM if I did, your remarks are so very unfair to me and to try and lay such blame on me, is beyond belieth. had I put your pm on here, you would not have found one person who would have agreed with you. Still its your point of view, maybe you would like to post it yourself, to see what response you would get.
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Post by crooky on Aug 24, 2008 22:24:25 GMT
Sean and Dave. It's a shame that the two of you seem to have fallen out over all this...especially when one of the points main regarding it was the need for all of us to stick together??
Got to say though, what a superb read it has been to now. Well done to all those who have contributed..Im on the edge of my seat here!
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Post by mickyflash on Aug 24, 2008 22:28:50 GMT
Just to clarify, I am behind our manager, and you will not find any post made by me that suggests otherwise. I am disappointed in our performance and I am not going to pretend everything is rosey. was it wrong of me to state that I hoped Buckle would of taken the pressure off the players? does this make me anti Buckle? If thats the case I must also be anti Nicho because I think his distribution has been poor so far his season, In fact I anti half of the team?? this is just ludicrous,
My point was to try and get the supporters together to back the team no matter their personal feelings regarding Buckle, as now is the time the team need us fans the most, but I guess its far more productive to alienate the younger fans who chant at games as Idiots and accuse them of mindless profanities.
Dave, I do not chant as much as I once did and I think It will always be the case that as younger fans mature, they will do as you and I do, go to the game and support as much as we feel we are able to, while a new generation of fan will come through and become the new set of 'singers' Tomorrow I feel the players and indeed the manager needs its fans more than ever and I will do my up-most to get behind the team as much as I can
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Aug 25, 2008 12:06:18 GMT
Andygulls my dear mate, could you please reduce in size the two images you have hosted on photobucket, great post mate, but as they are so big they are stretching out the forum for most members.
many thanks Dave
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Post by witneygull on Aug 25, 2008 12:13:39 GMT
I hope we never lose the ability to express our opinion whether here, .net, the ground or in the pub. If you feel that team selection, tactics, players, the management or even the board you should express it - what would have happened if people had kept their mouths shut during the Roberts era? (And before the oversensitive go off on one, I am NOT drawing any kind of comparison between then and now).
Criticism of Buckle seems pretty fair at the moment, team selection seems (to an outsider) to be bizarre to say the least. Tactics seem unclear, Saturday was a split between trying to get the balls and play it (Which failed, as the players never looked good enough to make it work), and as soon as Sills came on, it was all long balls to his head for a knock down to someone who wasn't there.
It's all very well saying they need to gel, and players are being tried in alternative positions, but this really should have been sorted out long before now, thats 4 games in and we are 8 points off the top. This squad may come good and start winning, but my worry is that by then it will be far too late. Unless something comes good very soon, the best we can hope for is the play-offs, but from what I have seen so far, I can't see that happening either.
I am struggling to recall a good performance since the Yeovil cup game.
Still, we have the biggest squad in years, and the biggest sponsorship deal in the clubs history....shame we've only got 4 points......
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