Attitude Of Today’s Police

Firstly I do not disagree with all that you say! I can only comment on the Miners’ Strike because I was one of those drafted up to Orgrieve from Somerset. During my time there I saw horrific violence from both sides. I also saw compassion shown by both sides. I do not think that there are many, myself included, that would argue the fact that the then Government used both sides as political pawns. Although better today, relations between the Provincial Forces and the Metropolitan Police reached an all time low during that period Merse. Enough said?

Aussie, I have never met you and as a result cannot comment on your own experiences with the Police. My ‘little fluffy world’ included thirty years in the Police during which I came across bad officers but I can honestly say that they were in the minority thankfully. If you ask retired officers their thoughts on today’s methods of policing you will find most agree that there is far too much ‘box ticking’. Sergeants and Inspectors have been replaced by ‘line managers’ and good old fashioned supervisory officers have to chase performance related targets!

Another reason for the change in the ‘bobby’ is the type of recruit now entering the service. I joined in 1973 and the rank and file officer then was made up of many ex service men, who were worldly wise, and it was a far more disciplined way of life. Slowly the recruits were becoming younger and entered the service still having to learn how to deal with people and gain life experience before being competent enough to carry out their duties. Add to that the dripping tap that slowly flooded not only the Police but all walks of life with Political Correctness then you have a recipe for a lowering of standards everywhere.

But even so you cannot tar everyone with the same brush! The vast majority of Officers on the streets today are there serving the public to the best of their ability despite the fact that our Political leaders, from all parties, do their utmost to tie one hand behind their backs with political correctness issues.

I notice that your reply to my post was ‘typical reaction of a copper’ Aussie whilst conveniently managing not to address a single point I made!

There will always be two sides to an argument. I look forward to maybe meeting you one day Aussie when we can air our views over a pre match pint hopefully without tearing each other to pieces! We could always get Dave R to referee!

Did you have to I.D that rough looking mob that had the box next to the blue seats, in the family stand for the FA cup game! I am surprised they lasted the whole match without at least one being chucked out!

It only needed the police to "come over" and join the struggle and that government would have been overthrown
, as it would have during the mass protests that followed in London later when the huge crowd in Hyde Park wanted to march on Parliament and drag the bastards out to explain themselves. But only Tony Benn and Michael Foot told it as it was whilst John Smith shat himself and pleaded for calm.

Any mass action then would have seen the police have no option but to stand aside as they did in East Germany when the uprising began and the Wall came down.

I wholly agree with your statement about the vast majority and the FACT that they are politically manouvred, but the suspician was that those who were bussed in and chose to wave fivers through the windows to torment those living on strike pay were only too pleased to do Thatcher's bidding. Not the majority by any means, neither were the ones who manned the road blocks all over the country to prevent free movement without any law being in place that backed up that action. But that's the trouble Paul, a Police Force that is there to police the community should neither be used nor allow itself to be used to attack the community.

Hells bells, they even sent you lot into battle without proper equipment to protect yourselves with.....................not much has changed really with our troops in Afghanistan hey?

I was in a group of TU activists who waylaid "Two Jags" Prescott on College Green in Westminster and implored him to stand up for the working class and get the Welsh Windbag Kinnock and their rubbish leader John Smith to do the same. What did he do? Got us detained by the police until he could slither off. Not arrested mind you, as we hadn't broken the law, but enough so he could abdicate his responsibilities as a Trade Union sponsored MP; so we made his life a misery by taking it in turns to just "hang out" accross the road from his flat in Old Town Clapham Common for a few weeks and make him think a bit about his treachery.

I feel sorry for the police in that they are forever being used as political pawns, but you must be honest and admit that there is an element amongst them who are right wing, who are fascist and only too ready to uphold the exploitation of the working man, when their job should be just maintaining law and order and that's tough enough to do anyway and undermines the wonderful work many of them around my neighbourhood carry out in interacting with the local youth in a big attempt to keep them "onside"!

You'd be safe Dave! I think they'v all been issued with blue fluffy handcuffs for the blokes and pink ones for the girls these days! All the vans are lined with stuffed cushions so you wouldnt be able to hurt yourself there either. ;D Mind you the policewoman behind the counter at the nick is a different proposition (black pudding Bertha is her name I believe and she's built like a brick outhouse, fed on yeast-vite and miracle grow in her porridge). I know you like big women though so I'm sure you'd manage!

Aussie would be the one to kick off I reckon as he'd want yellow or gold fluffy handcuffs (very patriotic guy he is). I reckon he'd be arrested for carrying an offensive weapon (fork) and deported back to Oz! We'd miss him though, the place wouldn't be same without him shouting the odds! Good on ya Oz mate! Keep them sods in order at Plainmoor! ;D

Dave I did say to Paul that I would like to take him up on his offer and have a pre-match pint with him and a chat, you see I wouldn`t do that if I thought for a minute he wasn`t a decent bloke, please read what I post properly as it appears you might have skipped through my posts and not got what I was trying to say, either that or I`m back to not being able to phrase what I mean correctly!

Several of todays newspapers reported that the police have been 'falsely arresting' people as correctly reported by aussie, in order to build up the DNA database. This is probably a bit misleading, as media reports often are, as the real situation I suspect is that the arrests were perfectly legitimite in the first place but that when all the evidence was considered there was insufficient to charge (or charging was not in the public interest). It is not the actual arrest which is wrong (the reasons needed in law to arrest have always been less than the evidence needed to aquire a conviction) but the keeping of the DNA of innocent people on the database. As soon as a decision has been made not to charge then the sample should be destroyed. That though is not the law, the law made by our elected government.

I have no objections to having a DNA database and many serious crimes have been detected as a direct result of DNA evidence, but the database should not be built up by stealth in an underhand manner as seems to be the case. The government were keen to build up a database quickly and in order to achieve this changes were made to the law governing arrest so that far more arrests are now made for very trivial offences which would not previously have been the case. This was introduced by the government and it is the government who make all of the laws which the police apply. This is most certainly not a political statement as it really makes no difference who the government of the day is.

The police have probably seen more changes in the last 30 years than in the previous 100 years. During that time we have had 14 years of conservative governance followed by 14 years of labour governance (I find it difficult to tell the difference these days!). The 12" wooden baton of the 1970's which most officers did not draw during their service and Pye radios that did not work have been replaced by an extendable metal casco, CS spray, tasar, and a digital radio system Several armed officers patrol the streets of Devon & Cornwall 24 hours a day. This has certainly resulted in a more militaristic appearance which in itself gives off an air of unapproachibility. Lack of face to face contact between police and public (of which the police are a part) leads to a lack of trust and understanding on both sides. If a police officer always gets verbal or physical abuse every time he deals with somebody than his initial stance is almost certainly to be more aggressive from the outset, resulting inevitably in more aggression from the person he is dealing with. Not right, but it can be understood how the situation can develop. How did it develop? More government help I am afraid!

Efficiency savings demanded by government led to an increase in civilianisation and the setting up of specialist squads, resulting in a quicker extinction of the bobby on the beat than the polar bears are experiencing on their melting icecaps. The setting up of the CPS to usurp a previously important role of the police undermined morale and confidence in the criminal justice system. Government set targets and ticking the right boxes to pass inspections and obtain central funding became a priority to the detriment of other activities.

What cannot be ignored in all this though is that there are still many very dedicated police officers who really do care about providing the best possible service to the community they are part of, and are willing to go to the ultimate extreme of risking their lives. Sadly we have seen an example only this week during the floods when a brave officer lost his life whilst acting to protect the public.

Even bravery though is not as clearcut as it used to be, again thanks to our democratically elected government. Initially the police were sensibly exempt from Health & Safety legislation but then it was decided by government that the police should be included. To what end? For the police it has only caused confusion and has led to hesitation when previously a bobby would have acted on instinct. The only real end were the financial benefits to the legal profession (the profession that always dominates the government of the day) and the same would have to be said about the Human Rights Act, initiated to prevent genocide it is now used for all sorts of nonsence.

Picking up on a previous post from aussie I suspect, although I do not know, that the perceived routine handcuffing of people who have been arrested is as a result of a Risk Assessment carried out under Health & Safety legislation, whereas previously the individual arresting officer decided on the individual circumstances. In the 1970's many officers did not even carry handcuffs.

Please don't think I am having a pop at you aussie just because I have mentioned you twice, it just happens that I was focussing on points you previously raised on this thread and you will see that I have in fact not totally disagreed with you.

When considering the theme of this thread 'attitute of today's police' as opposed I suppose to 'the police of old' (Was Dixon a myth would be another good topic but off thread for today!)
I think we have to look at everything else and realise it has all changed. Very few teachers from my schooldays would survive the first term without being suspended for perceived assaults on pupils. Never did me any harm, instilled discipline and one or two useful educational bits I could use along the way. As a kid the doctor used to come to my house, now we have to book an illness into the surgery well in advance and we will never see the same doctor on consecutive visits. Hospitals used to be a place to go to recover from a serious illness or accident but now with MRSA it is probably safer to stay at home. Social Services, a caring profession, have gone the way of the police and are over politicised.

Other things have changed too. In my first six seasons of supporting Torquay we finished 6th, 10th, 3rd, 7th, 4th, and 6th. I can remember as a kid at that time thinking "I'm glad I wasn't born in Hartlepool". Sadly I suspect that kids in Hartlepool today are thinking exactly the same about Torquay!!

Ok better wind up this rambling, I just can't get the hang of this social networking lark! Amongst those first 6 seasons was our 1966 promotion, the LAST time we got promoted and didn't go straight back down again the next season. There is still a risk it could happen again, although I don't think so and after a dodgy start I am ultra optimistic and expecting a final placing of 12th.

Stefano I think you have got the hang of this social networking lark! to an absolute T, what a great post and very interesting read.

I believe it was me that mentioned hand cuffs, as someone who would have a real problem being put in them, it is something I fear and adds to my feelings of todays policing methods. It could be the case that somehow your name come up in an inquiry, while you may be completely Innocent of the crime, they could still knock on your door and arrest you.

I have mixed views on DNA, yes it seems it has been able to solve some crimes that happened a long time ago and yes it has helped solve crimes as a person was arrested on a completely separate matter, but my worry is it could also get the wrong person.

Its not hard for anyone to put some DNA evidence of anyone at a scene of a crime, you would have a hard job proving you had not been at the crime scene if your DNA was there.

The bigger question is just how much information about us, should be held on record, we could be forgiven we are moving very quickly to a complete police state and for me that is a concern.

When you listen to debates on this subject, you always hear the argument, "if you have nothing to hid, you have nothing to fear" but is that really true these days.

Everywhere you go you are filmed on some camera or other and you don't have a say in it and does all the CTV really stop crime anyway. Fighting still takes place on Torquay harbour despite all the camera's.

Targets are what its all about these days, thats why they target car drivers the way they do in my view, helps with the crime figures and makes it look like more crimes have been solved.