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Post by capitalgull on May 25, 2009 21:21:29 GMT
I agree O2B - quality rather than quantity this summer.
Wish list:
Right back (Osano) to give us the option of moving Mansell back into midfield if Greavsie moves on. Osano can play centre-back as well.
Striker (Fleetwood or AN Other with 20 goals in him)
Left-winger (Glenn Poole perhaps) to give us four viable wide players. Poole can also play up front.
Young central midfielder (Reason maybe) to eventually replace Greavsie if he stays and provide backup if he stays and can't go 30+ games at the higher level.
That is all!
In other words, 4 players all of whom could be considered starters in League Two. And as for not looking to the Conference, and looking for players from higher divisions, I give you the evidence of Gillingham's 'Conference team' and Stuart Noble!!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on May 26, 2009 15:53:59 GMT
What we do need to do is make sure we have a strong enough team to be able to stay up and then hopefully be reasonable competitive. We all know the last time we went up we had a weaker and not stronger side playing in a division higher.
David Graham moved on and we never replaced him and I was mad that after all the hard work getting into division one, Bateson did very little to give the team a chance to stay there.
I do not think the gates helped much as they did not go up enough to provide extra cash and we all know the club under Bateson really had to live within its own means.
That will not happen this time under the current board and I'm sure we will see a few new faces who will be able to give us the chance to establish ourselves nicely in division two.
My view is that we can afford to reduce the size of the squad a bit, I felt having a large squad last season was part of the reason some players became discontent and as a result we did not make full use of having such a large squad.
I would like to see a few quality players who know the division and are not near the end of their playing career, we have had some players join in the past who really were looking for just a wage for another season.
We will have to wait and see how some of the players we have cope with playing in division two, I'm sure most will have no problem and may even shine more. I would also expect that Bucks will use the January transfer window if we have not done so well, or if we are near the top and could be looking to push on for a second promotion.
The important thing for fans is not to look for TUFC to do an Exeter City, it would be great if that were to happen, but we really need to keep our feet on the ground.
The problem is too good a start will see expectations rise far too high again and if we were to then hit a really bad patch, some will forget very quickly the promotion we just had.
After two years being out of the football league we should just be glad we are back there, not expect too much and anything else will be a bonus, I do fear if the worse was to happen and we came back down, then we really would see fans giving up supporting the club in large numbers.
I can't see that happening and a good solid mid table position this time next year will do fine and give us the base to push on the season after, its always better to learn to walk before you try to run and we still are only two years into the rebuilding of the club Roberts ruined and nearly lost for us.
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merse
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Post by merse on May 26, 2009 16:11:54 GMT
What we do need to do is make sure we have a strong enough team to be able to stay up and then hopefully be reasonable competitive. We all know the last time we went up we had a weaker and not stronger side playing in a division higher. David Graham moved on and we never replaced him and I was mad that after all the hard work getting into division one, Bateson did very little to give the team a chance to stay there. I do not think the gates helped much as they did not go up enough to provide extra cash and we all know the club under Bateson really had to live within its own means.  This will not happen this time as this time we have a proper MANAGER in Paul Buckle as opposed to a makeshift caretaker as in John Impey and a coach in Leroy Rosenior. Bateson could never get on with a proper manager and each time he appointed one it ended in tears. When the players started wingeing to him about Impey demanding more professionalism from them, he stabbed Imps in the back and in Rosenior he had a yes man who would run things on a wing and prayer and in reality he had a guy who had never been a success as a manager although he DID possess good coaching skills. Now we have a board who keep their noses out of the dressing room, a football professional as Chief Executive and a proven manager with an excellent track record in his managerial career. The only thing I worry about is the notorious South Devon public failing to get behind the effort in numbers that do justice to the effort and commitment put in by the professionals and directorate......................when you look at the incredible backing the much smaller town of Burnley (population under 80,000) give to their club you begin to realise the vast difference between a proper football town and a sleepy old seaside resort! |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on May 26, 2009 16:56:46 GMT
Merse you really can't say what will or won't happen, only that this board will give the support the manager needs to do his best and keep the team in division two.
As is always the case it comes down to what we hope and we should not have expectations or feel we have any rights, it will be the same as any other season, the team and club will need to earn any rights.
I fail to see who you can compare Burnley to Torquay? do people choose to move to Burnley when they retire? I would be very surprised if that was the case and while I expect Burnley has many living there who were not born there, I'm sure most of their support comes from people who were born there and have lived there all their life's.
You know full well that here in Torbay we have so many very old people and most have moved here to retire from places such as Burnley, we have very little chance of ever getting them to support Torquay United.
It is also a fact that we no longer have the support we once did from towns such as Newton Abbot, Dawlish to name just a few. When I was young any that followed football in Newton would have been TUFC fans.
Now you will find the next generation on from me and you make the trip down the road and watch and support Plymouth. Its just a fact of life and things change, I had to meet my work mate in the town last week, a man in his twenty's and born in Newton, I told him I would meet him by the drum.
He did not have a clue where I was talking about and just shows how even a simple meeting place that you and I would have met many at, seems to have been forgotten by the next generation, as has being a TUFC fan I fear.
There are plenty of fans here in the Bay, but getting them up to Plainmoor has never been easy, they come for the big games and while we differ on our views about football the way its meant to be played, I still maintain its good attractive football, thats entertaining and enjoyable to watch, will get more fans through the gate.
Yes we played some great football last season, but there were some very poor games and how often do we see those poor games when at last we had a decent crowd. I wish I knew why that always seem to happen, but one thing I do know is those extra that did turn up, will leave at the end and probably won't return in a hurry.
I can't see large numbers of extra fans just turning up next season, but if we get a good start and the word gets around that TUFC are playing some nice football, then I can see gates steadily rising as the season moves on.
We have had for many years now a hardcore of no more than 2000, it won't change over night, getting those who have now changed their habits when it comes to leisure time is not an easy task, but I believe if they changed once then can change again.
I'm sure some will just see how things go and all I hope is that if they then decided to go and see a game at Plainmoor, they get treated to a good game and one that will make them want to come back again.
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jerry
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Post by jerry on May 26, 2009 18:39:54 GMT
I'd would hope we may show some interest in the player who put on the best performance of the season at Plainmoor. Andre Boucaud of Kettering, I thought he looked a real class act and certainly would grace a league 2 side.
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Post by capitalgull on May 26, 2009 18:52:31 GMT
I'd hoped we might go for Charles Ademeno, who ran us ragged playing for Salisbury on loan from Southend, but I see he has gone to Crawley where he can learn from Steve Evans and co....poor lad!!!
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merse
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Post by merse on May 26, 2009 21:02:38 GMT
Merse you really can't say what will or won't happen, only that this board will give the support the manager needs to do his best and keep the team in division two. I fail to see who you can compare Burnley to Torquay? do people choose to move to Burnley when they retire? I would be very surprised if that was the case and while I expect Burnley has many living there who were not born there, I'm sure most of their support comes from people who were born there and have lived there all their life's. You're not reading my post properly again.....................what I have posted is that THIS board will not treat the manager like Bateson treated his, that THIS manager will do just that..................... MANAGE; not try to get by on wing and a prayer and try to con people he is a manager rather than merely a coach. ....................and I'm NOT making out Torquay United's support is anything like Burnley's, but that it is exactly the opposite end of the spectrum. With a little more careful reading you would have realised that surely! |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on May 26, 2009 22:01:43 GMT
I read and fully understood your post merse and I think you will find I agreed that the board will give Bucks the support Bateson never gave to managers like LeroyI wonder how you define a manager? for me its a man who can get the very best out of his players, make them perform when other managers before have failed to do that. Keep his players happy and try and get the team promoted and also be popular with the fans. For me Leroy filled all those requirements and would have done even better if he had the backing he deserved. No Torquay is not a football town like Burnley and it does well due to that very fact to get the support it does, if it was a football town then you might expect better support, but you can't have it both ways merse, not even you  |
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merse
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Post by merse on May 27, 2009 2:53:17 GMT
I wonder how you define a manager? for me its a man who can get the very best out of his players, make them perform when other managers before have failed to do that. Keep his players happy and try and get the team promoted and also be popular with the fans. A good and competent manager does NOT recruit players from a highly unsuitable environment like the academies and reserve or even third teams of other clubs to gain their first team experience in a side of a little club crying out for experience of the new environment they are going to play in. A good and competent manager does NOT begin a vital season without a clear idea of who his goalkeeper is and indeed sign one or two of them based on video evidence or solely the "advice" of the player's agent. A good and competent manager does NOT look a gift horse in the mouth and decline to spend money allocated to him to strengthen a failing side, believing instead in his own delusional opinion that HE and he alone can "coach" his never have beens and no hopers into something resembling a competitive force in that league. There is a world of difference between a "manager" and a "good and competent manager" and the gentleman in question patently didn't have anything on his CV to prove that he had the managerial capabilities to keep us in our newly attained exulted division. Before you say "ah but Bucks................." Bucks built his OWN squad from the basic level of just THREE retained players, immediately transforming OUR club into a table topping and/or highly competitive unit from Day One. Bucks had already attained a good few seasons in managerial assistant roles at the level we were to be playing in when he was appointed and Bucks realised (unlike say, Dean Saunders at Wrexham) that you need "horses for courses" to be a successful manager in football.......................it will never be any different. I loved the comment of Sir Alex Ferguson when asked for his reasons behind being so successful for so long: "most of my rivals are crap managers" he said! ......................and as for "popular with the fans" neither Frank O'Farrell in his day nor Bucks can ever stand accused of being popular with ALL the fans though can they! |
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davethegull
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Post by davethegull on May 27, 2009 3:51:36 GMT
This is the mere coach who got us promoted to Div 1 is it merse? That day at southend was amazing. The team Leroy "coached" was arguably one of the best we've had in the modern era. It would certainly run rings around our current crop in every department. Leroy had that team playing some of the best football i have ever witnessed as a Torquay fan. Better than anything PB has shown. If Leroy had the same backing as PB has had i'm confident that he would have produced better results and football thro better coaching skills. I wonder what Green's future would have been like had Leroy been his "coach".
As for your list of good manager "don'ts". I nearly fell off my chair laughing.
Did PB have our keeper situation under proper managerial control? I think not, and it cost us very dear with his pratting about and his mis-management of the whole Raynor situation.
Looking a gift horse in the mouth? Didn't PB's failure to bring in players during his first season during the Jan transfer window cost us promotion? Yes! He had the funds but opted to stick with the players he had when any idiot could see the holes that needed to be plugged.
As for Leroy's CV. It would have said " Got TUFC promoted to Div 1 on a shoestring, working for a tightfisted tyrant against all the odds" Pretty impressive.
You still insist on perpetuating this myth that PB is a good manager. Comparisons with Ferguson are laughable.
What PB is. He is a hard working, and yes, professional manager. His hard graft covers up a lot of his faults. But fair play to him for that. He rides his luck and this season got away with it after very nearly loving the whole season again. Fantastic! His luck is our benefit as we're sitting in Div 2 now. He is nowhere near Leroy in the coaching stakes.
Is PB a good manager? Not yet. Does he have potential? Of course. We will see what he's made off now he's playing with the big boys. I guess we'll find out. But please can you stop all this evangelical carp merse?
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on May 27, 2009 6:55:43 GMT
Buckle was lucky  Certainly did it the hard way, went on a very good run after a poor start and then finished very strongly with another very good run. I would argue that he showed some very good management skills at two critical and pressurised points in the season - when lets face it - many other managers would have buckled ;D Credit where credit is due Dave S please or you could be joining some Exeter fans on a strict diet of humble pie and hats next year  |
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jerry
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Post by jerry on May 27, 2009 6:57:47 GMT
A good and competent manager does NOT look a gift horse in the mouth and decline to spend money allocated to him to strengthen a failing side, believing instead in his own delusional opinion that HE and he alone can "coach" his never have beens and no hopers into something resembling a competitive force in that league. So are you saying that Arsene Wenger isn't a "good and competent" manager? |
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jerry
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Post by jerry on May 27, 2009 7:07:14 GMT
Looking a gift horse in the mouth? Didn't PB's failure to bring in players during his first season during the Jan transfer window cost us promotion? Yes! He had the funds but opted to stick with the players he had Do you think that if you just keep repeating these patently untrue comments that people will eventually just except them as fact? In the Jan window of his first season Bucks brought in Dsane, Adams and Kaid Mohamed. All of them were hailed as top notch signings at the time. Irrespective of whether you consider them to be successes at Plainmoor, there is no way you can claim that Bucks didn't use the funds at his disposal to strengthen the squad. |
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davethegull
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Post by davethegull on May 27, 2009 7:54:39 GMT
Jerry, i guess strengthen is the key word. Dsane, er no, played out of position so what was the point? Adams, hardly played at all, so what was the point? Kaid, went back after a couple of games, so what was the point? None of them strengthened the team.
Rjd, credit is due to PB. I've never questioned his work ethic. He is a grafter and this papers over the cracks. He is not a good manager yet. He makes too many mistakes at the moment. He can get away with it at BSP level but it will be more difficult to avoid at the next level. I have no doubt PB will up his work rate to compensate and i hope this is enough. He has shown that he has learnt from some previous mistakes.
My expectations last season were promotion, we got it..........phew!!! Next season i would like to see us flirt with the playoffs tho if he can get us in to them next year he will indeed be a miracle worker.
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Post by capitalgull on May 27, 2009 8:58:28 GMT
Lest we conveniently forget the nine important goals Roscoe scored this season, many of which came at vital times of vital games in the end-of-season shakedown.
I find it completely and utterly pointless that people drag up the old 'if Leroy was still here, if Leroy had this backing' garbage. He isn't and he hasn't - get over it. Why people have to incessantly bring up the bad old days of Chris Roberts and the drop from the great days at Southend astonishes me - it's as if people actually enjoy remembering all the bad old days just so they can get back to one of the best days.
Paul Buckle has guided us back into the Football League and there is no arguing that part of the story. Some of you will no doubt think he was lucky, others will think he did it on the back of hard work, making hard decisions and towards the end of the season, especially in the semi-final home leg with Histon, and in the final, playing at times football that even Leroy wouldn't have got us playing.
As others have said (and I won't mention Mr R McFarland outside of these parentheses) Buckle has built a team from scratch and that team has done the job that was set out for it in a much quicker time than most of the teams that drop into the Blue Square Premier. Remember that the likes of Oxford, Cambridge, York and others have been stuck down there for a lot longer, and the same fate could well befall Wrexham, Mansfield, Luton and Chester - all clubs with recent history at at least the same level as we managed to get to League One.
Like Mr Chris Hargreaves said in his recent interview on the PFA's website, this league is the hardest of any in the professional ranks to get out of - and that is a fact!! That Paul Buckle has done so deserves nothing but credit and not the sad old muck raking certain members of this forum delight in.
*Addendum - as for the Simon Rayner scenario, I would suggest other members of staff need to be looked at for that and any assumptions that PB was involved might need to be re-thought.
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