merse
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Post by merse on Mar 26, 2009 4:25:49 GMT
 Even Gilbert's Torquay United Blog is getting tiresome with it's anti Buckle attitude ......................"A lack of considered squad rotation in palpable winnable games" is followed by "His treatment of players like Ellis, Robertson, Stevens, Caryol, Green, Benyon, Carlisle and now Mansell"I know, let's campaign for eighteen a side....................oh oh; just remembered ~ we've got to fit Poke in as well. 
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Post by chrish on Mar 26, 2009 7:39:47 GMT
...after a 4 or 5 nil drubbing at the hands of an obviously superior side then yes, the only option is honesty. We are talking about a team on a great run of results....after a 1-1 draw in a game we nearly nicked at the end - its a bit different. Why be negative? ...jeez This is where we differ. I'd see an acknowledgement that we didn't play well as a positive. At least i'd know the manager was aware of it. If he thinks the only problem is the atmosphere in the ground, we're in trouble. Well we would be in trouble if Paul Buckle went in the the dressing room at full time and said "don't worry lads, you did nothing wrong, it's the crowds fault" wouldn't we? But its all personal interpretation isn't it? An admission from PB that there are problems in the team might put your mind at rest but for others might think "well if he's admitting in public, why doesn't he do something about it", then he heaps more pressure on himself and consequently his team. The "no comment" option on Champ Man is always the smart one when dealing with the press.  |
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Post by ospelgull on Mar 26, 2009 8:02:22 GMT
I found Paul Buckle's words not really offensive towards the fans who were at Plainmoor. The timing was wrong.
What he should have done is to start commenting about the game/performance of the team and after that the comments about the crowd and how we all have stick together and push this club forward, eventually resulting in a return to 'where we belong'.
It's not Paul Buckle's fault that we're in this league, nor is it the fault of our current board.
Expectations are far to high and maybe it would have been better if the current board hadn't put their money in and leave it to the TUST/supporters to save this club. Now it's gone to easy, the knights on white horses arrived and saved our club. Hadn't they stepped in the fighting spirit among the supporters would have been bigger?
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tufc01
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Post by tufc01 on Mar 26, 2009 8:43:34 GMT
Some of this is very tongue in cheek (I thought I had better put that in just in case somebody thinks I am comparing the two managers), however similarities?
The last league game that Man Utd won was on 4th March, evenIF they beat Aston Villa on 5th April. It will have been over a month without a league win. Sack Ferguson I say. They have lost their last 2 league games, relegation form that, sack Ferguson.
They got beat 4-1 by the club in 2nd place and the manager comes out and claims that his side deserved to win. Did he really believe that? Well he said it so he 'must' believe it. On Saturday they looked, at times, if they only had 9 players on the pitch, couldn't beat a side who were 28 points behind them, sack Ferguson. Jaap Stam was sacked because of comments he wrote in a book, Beckham was booted out because he fell out with the manager, the manager must have very poor man management skills, i think the Man Utd fans should start a campaign to get rid of the manager. He doesn't play Tevez enough or some other player i don't know the name of, what is he thinking, he WON'T WIN ANYTHING carrying on like that. In fact get some I love Tevez/Beckham/Staam T-shirts made up, some gully will buy them. So in short based on all those points Man Utd should really sack him and get someone else in? like Kevin Keegan that should tick off all the boxes. Strangely enough the Man Utd fans love him, yes its different because he has won so much, but if you look at the short term picture and some of the individual decisions, it looks slightly different.
Now i appreciate that it is foolish to even mention the two in the same sentence, however the point i am trying to make is that why is it OK for the manger of another team to do similar things to our manager yet the reaction from the fans is so different.
Whilst the 2 clubs could not be further apart, in every sense, you get my drift. I am comparing the reactions to their actions rather than the managers themselves. You don't get the Man Utd fans up in arms and saying that he doesn't know what he is doing. They only got to where they are now by putting trust in their manager, not lambasting him. I bet Fergy didn't finish 3rd in his first season and get to a Wembley cup final? Not like our manager did.
Now I am not saying he is the perfect manager, he does come across as a quiet, shy,well focused person (arrogant some say). But to me he looks like someone who is 100% focused on getting this club promoted and will do WHATEVER it takes to achieve this. Even dispensing with a so called legend moderate player, who was trying his hardest to rock the apple cart when he didn't get his own way, so if your looking for arrogant look no further than Steve Woods. There is no place at ANY club for a player who tries, at the most important time of the season, to put his OWN needs ahead of the teams, no matter how great a servant you have been. Bang out of order. The only mistake Buckle has made here is by not coming out and telling everyone how selfishly Woods has conducted himself. Not that he has to answer to the TISWAS* (or whatever they call themselves) brigade. The only person he has to is the board and have no doubt that they would be aware of the full situation.
He does make mistakes, and I am sure he is well aware of those. Its a fool who believes that Buckle is not aware of his mistakes and an even bigger fool who thinks he doesnt make any at all. Think back to Fergy's comments on their 4-1 defeat, just because he comes out with something that doesn't mean he is unaware of the underlying problems. You didn't see Fergy rip into Vidic and Rooney, not a chance. Do not air your dirty washing in Public.
Like someone said before, it does appear just to be another stick to beat the manager with.
* Perfect name by the way, a TV program for Kids, and now a campaign set up for........, thats right, kids.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 26, 2009 8:50:00 GMT
So you dont think that Paul is "aware" that the performance wasn't that good? Why would he give the players a HT rocket if he wasn't aware  ? As for the other problems at the ground? Did you also purchase a cheeseburger that was akin to eating a shoe odour eater..... Yes, i'm very certain he was aware of it. I just think he'd relate a little better to the supporters if he was able to admit his own fallability occasionally. Blaming bad luck, poor officials and the level of support is all very well. But there are other issues to be addressed and it'd be refreshing to hear they are being addressed too. Because from one home game to another, it's not obvious they are. |
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Post by Budleigh on Mar 26, 2009 8:54:16 GMT
tufc01... excellent!! I think your thoughts echo many of the 'quiet' supporters who don't rant and rave at every opportunity. Of course mistakes are made, of course those who pay their money to watch will curse when another ball from a corner goes flat and true straight to the opposition but most people have a little faith in what the club is trying to achieve.
We are not a Premiership side, a Championship, or even a league side. We are a team playing non-league football with the players to match and doing a damn good job of it... I still can't get my head around the idea that everyone thinks we should walk this league? Just get behind the team and enjoy the ride because i'm sure there would be an absolute outcry if we lost the club...
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 26, 2009 8:59:38 GMT
Fonda, you're once again going into one of your "serial spouting bollox" modes ...................and he did, right up to close of play last night! Now now Merse. I manage to resist the great temptation to refer to many of your posts in that manner. How about you extend me the same courtesy? Play nice, we're all adults. |
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 26, 2009 9:01:36 GMT
I think Fergie has been in the game long enough, and been successful enough to have earned the trust of his supporters. When Bucks has been managing for 30-odd years, and has a cabinet full of trophies, his decisions might be considered in the same manner.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 26, 2009 9:04:34 GMT
tufc01... excellent!! I think your thoughts echo many of the 'quiet' supporters who don't rant and rave at every opportunity. Of course mistakes are made, of course those who pay there money to watch will curse when another ball from a corner goes flat and true straight to the opposition but most people have a little faith in what the club is trying to achieve. We are not a Premiership side, a Championship, or even a league side. We are a team playing non-league football with the players to match and doing a damn good job of it... I still can't get my head around the idea that everyone thinks we should walk this league? Just get behind the team and enjoy the ride because i'm sure there would be an absolute outcry if we lost the club... Who an earth has suggested we should 'walk this league?' There's a big difference between that, and what is being talked about here. Those of us daring to question are not complete idiots (resist the temptaion Merse). |
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Post by Budleigh on Mar 26, 2009 9:11:54 GMT
Many, many writers on this site and the kiddies forum suggest just that Shane, that nothing but automatic promotion is good enough and with our resources we should walk this league... Go back and read some of the former posts.
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Post by Budleigh on Mar 26, 2009 9:18:25 GMT
I wasn't criticising anybody who questions and debates, is that not what a forum is about? What I am suggesting is that the mud being slung at Buckle is in no small part due to the fact we are third and not top. Let's be honest, if we were in poll position there would be no criticism of the man which would suggest that our league placing has an awful lot to do with it. Paul was absolutely correct in his assesment of the crowd on tuesday night and absolutely correct in suggesting that it has a bearing on the game. Instead of dissecting his words and the manner in which they were said why not turn it around and take a look from his point of view. The biggest chant of the night was aimed at him for the perceived way he dealt with a club matter. It showed no respect for the manager or support for the team.
I would've been seething if i'd been in his shoes...
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 26, 2009 9:18:33 GMT
But i've never suggested that Leigh, so don't really see the relevance to this thread. It's true we have supporters with unrealistic expectations, but i don't think what i've suggested is unrealistic.
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 26, 2009 9:31:08 GMT
I wasn't criticising anybody who questions and debates, is that not what a forum is about? What I am suggesting is that the mud being slung at Buckle is in no small part due to the fact we are third and not top. Let's be honest, if we were in poll position there would be no criticism of the man which would suggest that our league placing has an awful lot to do with it. Paul was absolutely correct in his assesment of the crowd on tuesday night and absolutely correct in suggesting that it has a bearing on the game. Instead of dissecting his words and the manner in which they were said why not turn it around and take a look from his point of view. The biggest chant of the night was aimed at him for the perceived way he dealt with a club matter. It showed no respect for the manager or support for the team. I would've been seething if i'd been in his shoes... Having recovered from my drive home on Tuesday night, i am more able to understand his frustration. But i still don't think making sweeping statements about those going to games is going to help achieve anything. I think i'll leave it there anyway. I've got work to do, and i'm getting bored of my own voice in thie thread (resist again Merse ) |
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Post by buster on Mar 26, 2009 13:07:51 GMT
Good grief!
I really can`t believe all this micro analyzing.
It`s good to feel passion for your club, but surely there must be a limit to the analysis.
Prior to the media explosion it was an adrenalin filled expectation pre-match, a moan on the walk home followed by a good old moan at work on monday morning.
does anyone honestly believe any football manager from youth to senior isn`t aware of his teams strengths or shortcomings?
Everyone makes mistakes.
If you think who is your all time favourite manager or team and then think why?
Do you judge by results or effort?
If we achieve promotion, on results alone PB & the team would surely rank as being one of our most succesful managers & teams, given the limited success we have had in the past.
If you judge by effort, I`m sure even the great teams of the past had the occasional howler.
As for communication, who knows what used to go on at Plainmoor prior to computers.
Give PB and the team a break.
There will be plenty of time for analysis in the summer.
All our energy must be channelled in a positive way for the run in.
buster
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Post by chrish on Mar 26, 2009 13:23:24 GMT
I think Fergie has been in the game long enough, and been successful enough to have earned the trust of his supporters. When Bucks has been managing for 30-odd years, and has a cabinet full of trophies, his decisions might be considered in the same manner. That is quite some statement. Do you really think that Fergie got things right from day 1? He quit playing when he was 32 years old and entered management at East Stirlingshire in 1974. He was on part-time terms and was on 40 quid a week. There's a quote from an East Stirlingshire player at the time saying that "I've never been afraid of anyone before but Ferguson was a frightening bastard from the start." He did well enough with them and was offered the St Mirren job where he had huge success with building Scottish First Division winning team with an average age of 19 (You won't win anything with kids) and was then sacked for a number of reasons mainly allegations of illegal payments to players, or at the very least fiddling the tax on players bonus. Another reason was him accepting the Aberdeen job while not consulting the St Mirren board of Directors. When he went to Aberdeen he found it more difficult because they had more experienced players and none of them respected Fergie as much as the young kids at St Mirren. It took him quite a few years at Aberdeen before they won anything but he was still known as Furious Fergie and actually fined one of his players for overtaking him on the road. He also created a siege mentality at Aberdeen (sound familiar) by saying that the Scottish Football press were biased towards the Rangers and Celtic. Lets not forget that he had 5 or 6 unsuccessful seasons at United and probably faced the chop on a number of occasions (The famous Mark Hughes goal against saved him once) . But the rest is history is it not? You can see from Fergie's history that he has a habit of falling out with experienced players who threaten his authority which you could argue is a fault much like Arsene Wenger's refusal to believe that he can't turn water into wine and Rafa Benitez's refusal to play players in their correct positions. Alex Ferguson is not like Barack Obama and is not immune to question or criticism. You're saying that because he's got 30 years of experience we can't criticise him but we can for PB in the second year of his managerial career. |
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