Fonda
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Talking absolute football...
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Post by Fonda on Mar 3, 2009 13:37:36 GMT
I'm not a lover of looking at statistics particulalry (though appreciate the time and effort that has gone into producing these). As said, they can be made to prove anything, if looked at from a particular angle. I prefer to watch with my own eyes, and form opinions based on more than numbers and graphs. Having said that, just occasionally such stats do paint a pretty accurate picture...
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Post by pezzagull on Mar 3, 2009 14:12:54 GMT
What is wrong with you people!! We are in a difficult league with a team and club that 18 months ago was on its knees.. It was taken on by a group of well meaning, but inexperienced, supporters who have turned our fortunes around. A young, rookie manager came in at the same time and in that period has taken us to a thrilling play-off, a Wembley final in the equivalent of the non-league FA cup, has had us on a record breaking run of unbeaten games and we are poised in the play-off places after beating quite possibly the biggest non-league side in history at their own place after they'd been on an unbelievable run of their own? Has everyone forgotton where we were such a short time ago and what we as a club have achieved from the ashes? This is down to the people running the club and the people working for the club including a very good, promising young manager. I would bet that in 5 or 6 years time we will look back on this period as a time when our fortunes changed for the better and that we are in the start of a golden period. I replied to this thread as a bit of fun because I love facts and figures, it was supposed to be a light hearted reply into how we can all see statistics in different ways depending on ones view point. I want a pint of what you are on!!! talk about rose coloured glasses |
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Post by Budleigh on Mar 3, 2009 14:20:57 GMT
Not rose coloured my friend, just telling it as it is...
ps... 'twas 'Back Beach' from the Red Rock brewery!
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jerry
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Post by jerry on Mar 3, 2009 14:47:14 GMT
I'm with Budleigh on this.
I've been watching the Gulls now for 21 years and can honestly say that those 21 years have included about 14 years of absolute dross!!
In the last league season I almost dreaded Saturdays, I had pretty much fallen out of love with football, but still dragged myself up to Plainmoor, more out of a sense of "duty" than anything else!
These last two seasons have been a revelation! I thought last season was fantastic (apart from THAT game!). In fact the build up to those play-off games was great, can't remember being so excited about football for years. (Not sure my boss would share my enthusiasm though as I couldn't concentrate on anything in the week before!).
Yes it all ended in tears and I was absolutely devastated. That in itself was good in a way though, I hadn't "cared" that much for years, even relegation from the league didn't move me as much because I had been so ground down over the years.
Those in charge of OUR club hadn't wanted to be there for years and their lack of enthusiasm seeped down into the collective consciousness of the fans.
Now, those in charge are, for the first time in living memory (well mine anyway), just like us. They want success just as much as we do and are constantly striving to make OUR club better on and off the pitch. We now have a club we can be proud of, instead of the joke it had become under previous regimes.
I even bought a season ticket, for the first time ever, this summer because I felt that the board deserved my support to help them achieve their goals.
Too many Torquay fans cannot see beyond the league we are in, if this was called League 3 (or division 5 in old money) I'm fairly sure they wouldn't be so hard to please!!
Forget what league we are in and for gods sake enjoy winning a few games again! After all, isn't that what supporting a football club is all about?
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merse
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Post by merse on Mar 3, 2009 15:12:01 GMT
I'm with Budleigh on this. Forget what league we are in and for gods sake enjoy winning a few games again! After all, isn't that what supporting a football club is all about?  Me too.....................work's as flat as a kipper today (again!) so I'm home early, changed and ready to pick my lad up from school to deliver him to his Tuesday football training for 5pm in Hornsey. Then it's link up time with TB1  , ensuring Anthony has his lift home organised; then off to "The Gravel"......................Grays to you lot. Bit of a bugger of a drive at tea time but it's only 25 miles. I heard it described as a crappy little ground by some of our lot last season, but remember where they have come from what with being watched by less than 200 souls less than 8 years ago and they're a real pleasure to visit........................a proper non league club with proper non league fans. they'll need their proper fans tonight what with Dagenham and Southend either side of them BOTH playing Football League opposition neither ground being more than 25 minutes away from the Rec. I've said it before and I'll repeat it today............................enjoy today and enjoy the season, what's the point of doing any other? Another tough place to visit tonight, a tight little pitch in a tiny little ground.......the exact alter ego to the Kassam. Getting sixteen players plus staff into that away dressing room defies belief for a start ;D So never underestimate the difficulties and discomforts when playing away whilst you are comfortably at home listening to your commentary. Grays are in trouble and fighting like hell to stay up, they will NOT roll over and die and will make it as difficult as they can for us just as they did for Cambridge and Burton this season. Anything we get will have to be fought for and before it can be won respect has to be earned. |
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 3, 2009 15:15:00 GMT
I don’t really understand the argument we should be somehow be grateful for beating teams such as Lewes and Barrow (no disrespect to them), occasionally. Surely even as Torquay United, with our chequered history, we have a right to expect that without needing to feel a sense of relief when it happens? Just how far do people think we’ve fallen?
And (for about the 10,000th time in the last 18 months), I don’t think anyone underestimates the strides made by the consortium in their time at the club. What they have achieved has been fantastic and they deserve all our thanks and praise. The question remains are we performing ‘on the field’ in a manner which accurately represents our clubs standing in this league? I personally don’t think there are many squads better than ours, so it's quite reasonable for us to expect a certain level of performance.
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jerry
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Post by jerry on Mar 3, 2009 16:00:52 GMT
Of course, arguably, we are in a better position this season than last!
It's an accepted wisdom that the teams who succeed through the play-offs are not those sat comfortably in the qualifying slots a few weeks before the end of the season.
Many people commented last year that they would rather have been "sat on the shoulders" of the play-off favourites than occupying that position ourselves.
Well, they've got their wish! We are perfectly placed for the final furlongs. I'm still confident that we will ruin every romantics dream and break little Histons hearts at Wembley!!
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jerry
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Posts: 165
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Post by jerry on Mar 3, 2009 16:08:30 GMT
I don’t really understand the argument we should be somehow be grateful for beating teams such as Lewes and Barrow (no disrespect to them), occasionally. Surely even as Torquay United, with our chequered history, we have a right to expect that without needing to feel a sense of relief when it happens? Just how far do people think we’ve fallen? We don't have a right to expect to beat anyone!  Nobody is talking about being grateful for anything. I think pre-season most would have said the play-offs were a realistic target, well last time I looked we were in the play-off positions. Therefore, we are right on target to achieve our aims. |
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merse
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Post by merse on Mar 3, 2009 16:09:16 GMT
I don’t really understand the argument we should be somehow be grateful for beating teams such as Lewes and Barrow (no disrespect to them), occasionally. Surely even as Torquay United, with our chequered history, we have a right to expect that without needing to feel a sense of relief when it happens? Just how far do people think we’ve fallen? The question remains are we performing ‘on the field’ in a manner which accurately represents our clubs standing in this league? As usual you display your naivety of professional football. It usually pans out that those at the lower end of the league fighting relegation, provide the more determined opposition as the season progresses. No-one is asking you to be "grateful" nor have "a sense of relief" merely suggesting that you enjoy yourself watching OUR club rather than turn it into some anxiety factor. Matches aren't decided on paper, wage bill or reputation. Once that white line is crossed and the whistle blows they are fought out on equal terms and RARELY does a final scoreline reflect anything but that FACT. What exactly is "standing in a league" at the end of the day but self perceived superiority on behalf of some fans? If size of average crowd, and potential "future" crowds were the factor we would STILL not be in the top five in THIS league, but what the heck; as Burton, Aldershot, Accrington, Dagenham and Rushden have shown clearly enough it is excellence of the playing and management staff that brings home the bacon; nothing more ~ nothing less. |
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Fonda
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Post by Fonda on Mar 3, 2009 16:21:47 GMT
As usual you display your naivety of professional football. It usually pans out that those at the lower end of the league fighting relegation, provide the more determined opposition as the season progresses. No-one is asking you to be "grateful" nor have "a sense of relief" merely suggesting that you enjoy yourself watching OUR club rather than turn it into some anxiety factor. Matches aren't decided on paper, wage bill or reputation. Once that white line is crossed and the whistle blows they are fought out on equal terms and RARELY does a final scoreline reflect anything but that FACT. What exactly is "standing in a league" at the end of the day but self perceived superiority on behalf of some fans? If size of average crowd, and potential "future" crowds were the factor we would STILL not be in the top five in THIS league, but what the heck; as Burton, Aldershot, Accrington, Dagenham and Rushden have shown clearly enough it is excellence of the playing and management staff that brings home the bacon; nothing more ~ nothing less. Thanks once again for putting me right Merse. I've progressed to mere naivety now it seems. Progress is progress i suppose. It's not in the least bit naive to expect decent performances from the squad we have assembled. You did notice my use of the word 'performances' as opposed to 'results'? And my comment regarding 'standing in this League', had nothing to do with arrogance about our relative size - merely an assessment of the quality of our squad compared to others. |
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Post by chrish on Mar 3, 2009 16:30:35 GMT
I'm not a lover of looking at statistics particulalry (though appreciate the time and effort that has gone into producing these). As said, they can be made to prove anything, if looked at from a particular angle. I prefer to watch with my own eyes, and form opinions based on more than numbers and graphs. Having said that, just occasionally such stats do paint a pretty accurate picture... Oh please. Did you manage to keep a straight face before complying such poppycock? "I prefer to watch with my own eyes". We'll forget about the "dellusional" Buckle post and the dodgy arithmetic shall we?  |
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Post by ospelgull on Mar 3, 2009 16:49:11 GMT
Grays-Kettering 1-1
Grays-Kidderminster 3-2
Grays-Wrexham 2-1
Grays-Oxford 2-0
Lost with the odd goal against Burton, Stevenage and Cambridge.
Tonight, our boys will have to be at their best to get anything from the Rec.
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Fonda
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Talking absolute football...
Posts: 384
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Post by Fonda on Mar 3, 2009 16:57:00 GMT
I'm not a lover of looking at statistics particulalry (though appreciate the time and effort that has gone into producing these). As said, they can be made to prove anything, if looked at from a particular angle. I prefer to watch with my own eyes, and form opinions based on more than numbers and graphs. Having said that, just occasionally such stats do paint a pretty accurate picture... Oh please. Did you manage to keep a straight face before complying such poppycock? "I prefer to watch with my own eyes". We'll forget about the "dellusional" Buckle post and the dodgy arithmetic shall we? What exactly is your issue Chris? I admitted the term 'delusional' was overly harsh (and badly spelt i think!). Perhaps that post doesn't need to be referred to every time i make a subsequent one? Dodgy arithmetic? I'm not really sure why my posts deserve such scrutiny? I'm sure you could find erreors in other people's if you went to the same effort. |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Mar 3, 2009 17:37:33 GMT
I've been watching the Gulls now for 21 years and can honestly say that those 21 years have included about 14 years of absolute dross!! 21 years? You were lucky. If my maths is right, you just missed the REALLY bad bit. If you'd been born five years earlier then you would really know what absolute dross is, and would appreciate that what you witnessed was just dross! Things were so bad in the mid 80s that probably even Budleigh's cracked cup or rolled-up newspaper was half-empty. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Mar 3, 2009 17:52:36 GMT
Well the one thing that has pleased me, is that this thread has come alive and has had some good posts made on it. Andygull puts a lot of work into the charts and we love them on the forum and his efforts deserved to see some good debate, so well done and fonda keep your chin up mate. |
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