The Club You Hate The Most?

Old Etonians closely followed by Old Carthusians - elitist, stuck up old farts the lot of 'em...........................I mean, fancy singing "There's only one Percy Melmoth-Walters"

Old Carthusians...Old Etonians...that's the Arthurian League.

Down in Div 5 they'll be singing...

We hate Old Harrovians "A"
We hate Old Wykehamists Reserves too (and Old Amplefordians!)
We hate Old Cholmeleians "A"
But Old Cholmeleians "B" we love you!

All together now...



We all hate Leeds - sung to the tune of the Dambusters March - will do me as a sing-a-long.

(thanks to the Non-League Newsdesk Annual for its Arthurian League coverage - somebody has to do it).

Well I support Torquay and also follow Newcastle (Due to my Dad coming from the area) and it's simple

Exeter Because I started supporting United in '82 it seemed that we never beat them and my first realization them was when they won Promotion to Div 3 (Old School), This hatred of them has lead me to dislike the following

Sunderland
Sheff Utd
Lincoln City
Stoke City
Southampton
Brentford
Altincham

Can you see a pattern forming here

OH and you can throw one more in ...MK Dons for obvious reasons

...because they (and I'm sorry if its the season of goodwill) saved the cheating 7p cheating scum not once but twice.

1. Milton Keynes – I refuse to call them Dons. A sham of a club that stole Wimbledon’s league place and tried to steal their history. It was an absolute disgrace that the football authorities let them get away with it. It was impossible for me to despise them more than I already did, but then they fluked their way out of relegation in 2005 by scraping past Tranmere Reserves to send us down. They then cheated their way to come back from 2-0 down against us in 2006. At half-time we looked promotion contenders, but it all went downhill from there – pretty rapidly! I blame them as much as I blame Chris Roberts – well almost as much.

2. Team Bath – another sham of a club, masquerading as a “University team” when they are nothing of the sort in order to be “state-funded”. How they get away with it is beyond belief. To make matters worse, they spawned the odious tw@ in the crav@ - see below.

3. Exeter City – poxy debt-welchers who pay 7p in the £ and get away with it scot-free. Their fans have no shame and suffer from delusions of grandeur. Their manager is a tw@ in a crav@. As if that’s not bad enough, they are from Exeter!

Ah yes...Team Taxpayer.

When Team Bath was formed I thought the idea was fair enough. If the university is involved in other sports, why not football? And, given my professional background, I was all for ex-professional footballers (and trainees) being encouraged to gain educational qualifications and further their careers. I expected players to be bona fide Bath University students and unpaid. And, if it was above board, it seemed rather more honest than Cambridge University bending the rules to accept dullards on land economy courses so they could play rugger against Oxford.

Knowing my way around the higher education system, I wasn't too surprised when the stipulation was extended to include students on Bath's franchised courses at City of Bath and Wiltshire colleges. That's the name of the game in HE but, of course, through this arrangement a rather different breed of student appeared on the scene. For a start, they could be in full-time employment and only attending college for a few hours a week. And what comes first - a good player found doing a part-time course or a miniscule course found for a good player?

Initially it all seemed rather laudable and it clearly helped people like Ryan Northmore gain academic qualifications and start on coaching careers. Ryan certainly seems be building a reputation as a coach at Weston. There will be plenty of similar examples.

Where it started to become dodgy was when members of the coaching staff - ex-pros such as Andy Tillson (500+ senior games) - began playing for Team Bath. It was also obvious the time spent training - irrespective of whether the players were paid (and might they be?) - was on a par with fully-professional clubs. As the club rose through the leagues, it was clear Team Bath enjoyed advantages over their rivals - who are all self-financing of course - through the public purse. For Team Bath gate revenue, social clubs and raffle tickets are of little - or no - importance (although the club isn't adverse to a spot of sponsorship from the likes of Ted Baker - but, hey, that's modern universities for you).

Consequently the level of antipathy within non-league circles has steadily increased and the club has now reached the point where, if you look on its website, there seems to be a degree of ambiguity over which players are actually students - and, indeed, what sort of student. Some are students, a few are ex-students, one or two could be students, others may never have been students. Furthermore, another highly-curious aspect is that Team Bath runs teams for players under university age. Again, professionally, I've been involved in Aimhigher and other widening participation initiatives so I fully-support universities working with school age young people to raise aspirations. But this, I'm afraid, sounds suspiciously like a Team Bath youth policy.

Some of the above struck home when I saw a Bath City v Team Bath clash two or three years ago. For one thing, there didn't seem to be any Team Bath supporters present for what was technically a local Derby. Maybe they were at home for the holidays - or perhaps they hardly exist? Secondly, Team Bath fielded a player on loan from a professional club, namely George Friend of Exeter City. That's hardly the spirit of the project, is it? However - when you consider George Friend did A levels at an independent school - he probably more closely resembled the typical Bath student than any of his colleagues!

But, last of all, I must say one thing. Although the concept of Team Bath disturbs me as a football fan, I would say the opportunity of playing high-level non-league football - and gaining a univesity-level education - is something for serious consideration amongst potential university students who are decent footballers (or as an option for ex-footballers who are well-qualified). From the student perspective it has an awful lot going for it. If this interests you, look into it but make sure you pick the right subject to study - this could be sport or something else.

Plenty of food for thought there, Merse. It was only through talking to a former colleague, who ironically has worked closely with Bath University in the area of student recruitment, that I realised the degree of antipathy towards Team Bath in non-league circles (and it's interesting Jon has picked this up sufficiently to put TB just after MK in his list). Now I must declare that my colleague, a normally reasoned individual who checks his facts, is a Trowbridge Town supporter (and perhaps not as dispassionate as he would normally be). It would also be the case that, the closer you get to Twerton Park, the greater the resentment and twisting of fact. An unfortunate sideshow of the Team Bath story is that it has happened in a city where the local club has been playing no higher than Southern Premier or Conference South. As a result, Team Bath has become a team to resent amongst Bath City supporters. Had it been Team UWE (Bristol) the reception - and perception - may have been rather different.

The association with education doesn't help in some quarters. Often it's the old it's not for the likes of us and what do they know of football in their universities? stuff. That's an interesting one now that around 40% of young people go to university. This means the average 18-21 non-league footballer is just as likely to be a university student than a van driver, bricklayer, office worker or whatever.

Overall, it seems the main area of concern is the use of non-students in the team. I've not seen any hard information about this so I don't know the scale of it (and I guessing this might be prone to exaggeration) but it strikes me this could involve three types of player.

The first is the coach - such as Andy Tillson, Paul Tisdale or Brian Parkin in the past. I think I can just about accept this if the individual concerned is a salaried employee of the university and it's kept within reason (ie one or two at a time and no part-time coaches drafted in for big games). There is an education by example and instruction argument here. I understand Team Bath hasn't gone down this route so much recently but - whatever the merits - it's what first caused the criticism from other clubs and changed the perceived image of Team Bath from that of plucky students.

The second is the ex-student. I recognise the tradition of alumni sometimes continuing to play for certain university clubs after graduating. However, because of the numbers of players coming through the system, do Team Bath really need to do this? Isn't it time for these players to move on especially as one of the programme's claims is to produce players to play at all levels of the game?

The third is the player with no connection with the university. Well, there's always been a strong academic tradition of visiting fellows and masterclasses - together with industrial awareness (and Bath is big on that) - but I think this is where it all becomes a bit cynical. If there is no decent student left-back it strengthens the team to recruit an outside player in that position to the benefit of the other players (but not student left-backs) and the overall project. Hmm...this is where the boundary lines seem to blur between the laudable work being done in the wider sense and the pursuit of success on the field. Merse is wholly correct in saying that Team Bath should aspire to playing at the highest possible level - hanging around in Western League One would have served a limited purpose - but, in the extreme case, this would be naked manipulation of public funds if this was achieved purely with non-students. There's no suggestion this is anywhere near remotely happening but it would be interesting to get some hard information (rather than hearsay) about the composition of teams.

The issue of Team Bath as a non-league club aside, Merse is perfectly correct in acknowledging the work Bath University (and other institutions) has done in producing hundreds of football coaches to the benefit of the game at all levels (with Ryan Northmore being a good example). Programmes such as the two-year foundation degree in coaching have been a massive development. And in another direction we've seen, from the time of John Knapman and Maurice Cox onwards, there's a good career to be made from combining graduate-level employment with senior non-league football.

Two final points. Firstly, I'll admit to having a lot of time for Paul Tisdale - strike me down! - and I thought it was a bold, but well-advised, move by Exeter to recruit him. For me, being associated with Team Bath suggested good credentials.

Secondly, I take Merse's point about community programmes which, by my implication, suggests the University of Bath might be far better-placed to run schemes with children and teenagers than Bath City. That's probably a source of local resentment and not unlike that shown towards Plymouth Argyle's association with South Devon College. I can't blame either party for that situation - nor can I blame any talented South Devon player for heading in the direction of Home Park. We can only hope Torquay United's partnership with Paignton Community College will flourish but, in the long-run, it would be good if there was some sort of association with the largest FE provider in the area. I never have a problem when the best of each year's crop from South Devon goes to Plymouth or another bigger club - it was ever thus - but I'd always hope that Torquay United has a fighting chance of getting the second, third and fourth best each year. And, additional to that, you would hope that any such scheme encourages young players to continue playing the game at whatever level is most appropriate to their ability.