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Post by scottbrehaut on Dec 1, 2008 17:02:09 GMT
Were you the missing 8th dwarf then Dave? Angry dwarf?
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Post by aussie on Dec 1, 2008 17:51:05 GMT
I spoke to a steward and a member of staff this morning and they also agree something needs to be addressed and said they would talk to Colin about it so by now I think everything should be in hand, I for one trust Colin and the board whole heartedly, it all depends on whether or not the steward and the staff pass the message on. I`m sure they will!
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Post by forevertufc on Dec 1, 2008 18:47:24 GMT
i hope this wont be lost here,i have had a reply to my e-mail from the club.
club have said that as soon as it was realised their was a number of oxford fans on the popside the safety officer was called in,they were asked to move to the away end and refused
claiming to be torquay fans ,the safety officer felt that trying to force the issue at that point could have led to more trouble,so a police support team was called in as a precaution ,and as grandalfgull correctly told us they come under the control of the safety officer,they have also said the stewards moved in as soon as the chants started .
when so sit down calm and think about things it does become clear,the actions of the safety officer in not forcing the fans to be moved does seem wise indeed and i accept that.
i don't agree that they did move in as soon as the chants started
but am happy to say the stewards did handle it well when they did move in.
i am also happy to close this matter in my own head and move on ,looking forward to Saturday and another 3 league points.
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Post by forevertufc on Dec 1, 2008 18:49:27 GMT
sorry i forgot to say, that in their reply they have said that their has been many e-mails and phone call's on the incident ,so i think it is clear that this will have reached board level at the club.
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Dec 1, 2008 19:02:42 GMT
Thanks forevertufc for letting us know the clubs angle on these matters. I do fully understand the reason things were done the way they were.
It is still my view that all known away fans found in a home area, should and must be removed.It would only take a goal, or a bad challenge on one of their players, to change their mood, too late taking action then I'm afraid.
Best to air on the side of proper safety and get them in the away end, no matter what ever reasons are given, home fans should have the right to feel 100% safe in their own area's.
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sam
TFF member
Posts: 341
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Post by sam on Dec 1, 2008 20:23:25 GMT
Police officers can and should intervene when they see a breach of the peace. Spitting in someones face is an assault plain and simple and the person should be arrested immediately. It is bread and butter. No complaint is needed if witnessed because the act itself is public disorder and I would have thought an arrest would have been necessary to prevent further disorder. The offender who got off scot free is only emboldened by his ability to behave like this and get away with it. The fact that police officers are there, in uniform or not, does not preclude them from taking action. Any police officer, especially in uniform, who witnessed a stewart being spat at in the face and did nothing, I am sorry, but it is nothing short of neglect of duty. Pity any poor Torquay Supporters walking in Cary Park and meeting this scrote and his mates as they make their way to their transit van. This is where the danger is, their five against our two, away from the CCTV and uniforms. Be mindful though that the police will have to wait literally an hour to book prisoners in, taking resources away from the match. Any prisoner who complains of a bump on the head, hurt writsts because of the cuffs, is likely to have to be escorted to hospital. You cannot believe how much police time is wasted in the booking in procedures at the station. It is truly a national scandal. Then there is the paperwork and evidence which has to be of crown court standard before CPS will charge which in itself is a rare event. Everyone gets bail and hardly anyone goes to prison as magistrates (talking heads) have been given strict guidelines about keeping people out of prison. Every day in the Herald Express you will see 'Last chance for burgler'. Drug dealer given last chance reprieve etc. Sorry I drifted on about other law and order stuff but it seems to me on the things witnessed above that arrests should have been made. The police have one arm tied behind their back but even so........... It is almost a case of having to do the justice bit ourselves.
Apologies to:
Scrotes
Magistrates
Custody personnel
Decent hard working police officers who take initiative - the majority
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treetopsringwood
TFF member
Born in Chelston, Torquay.....Longing to come back
Posts: 133
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Post by treetopsringwood on Dec 1, 2008 20:54:00 GMT
Hello Sam, If you are who I think you are (Sam B .)you are related to me (cousin) whom we met for the first and only time about 15yrs ago. please e.mail and say hello Thanks Steve
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Post by stuartB on Dec 1, 2008 21:08:50 GMT
Dave wasnt scared of what was going on anyway - the yobs couldnt see that far down...... Dave is trained and dangerous mate, you ask Stuartb we has seen my all my moves  very very scarey!  |
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Dec 1, 2008 22:19:22 GMT
Sam some very good points in your post and it highlights how things have changed so much in todays modern policing. I would say not for the better in my view and the very few dealings I have had with police today, has not been what I expected.
We have a member on here, who is married to the son of a policeman who was a policeman, when I was young in Newton Abbot. A man who you fully respected and he always seemed to turn up, where ever you were getting up to some mischief.
The thing was he would have no problem giving you a clip around the ear and when he did, you never ran home and told your mum, as she would have given you another one.
Yes we now live in a world where human rights rule, where those villains and thugs seem to have more rights that the poor sod, they just robbed or laid out cold.What worries me is the attitude of some of todays police, I guess for them the job is much harder, as they simply do not get that much respect from many, due to the word respect, somehow being a dirty word these days.
I have had to talk to a policeman a few years ago, he seemed very arrogant, not prepared to listen and it seemed I was guilty no matter what. I did in the end get a written apology from the top cop in Devon , but what is needed is just a little common sense and to learn that not every person a policeman meets, is going to be a criminal.
While I agree that what the policeman saw was a crime as such and he should have taken action, I still do not know the reasons, police inside the ground, have to wait to be asked for help. Maybe someone could find out and let us know on here.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2008 22:29:31 GMT
Dave R
Do we know that the policeman actually witnessed the incident ?
Was he actually looking at this man during the split second the Oxford fan spat at the steward ?
Not deliberately wanting to split hairs but JMGull mentions only that there were policemen 'near' the incident. If they were not preoccupied with other duties & they actually saw the spitting take place then I agree that it should be expected that they would intervene.
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Dec 1, 2008 22:36:23 GMT
Thats a fair point alpinejoe and we will have to wait for jmgull to reply, but reading his post again, he does not say that the policeman did not see it, only that the policeman said he had to be asked for assistance.
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merse
TFF member
Posts: 2,684
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Post by merse on Dec 2, 2008 4:06:49 GMT
 I think Plod would get a lot more respect if they didn't wear those noncy bright yellow jackets. The German cops don't get the piss taken out of them wearing those paramilitary fatigues, you wouldn't take on the Gendarmerie with their tear gas canisters; so why send OUR lot out looking like a bunch of daffodils? Anyway, going by the uneducated calibre of the idiot who nicked the Barnet1  at Tin Pot Underhill..................the average police court statement is a diatribe of illiteracy and a fecking embarrassment. PS: Any truth in the rumour that when it all went off in Boots the other day, the Borough's finest responded to the call by tearing round to Boots.................the chemist?  Nee naw, nee naw. 
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Post by aussie on Dec 2, 2008 9:28:13 GMT
The old bill and the courts have completely lost the plot!!! Todays Herald, 63 Year Old Teacher On Assault Charge. Why because he held down the hand of a female student to protect her hand from damage as she was drilling a large hole in a clock face. I know from experience ( a large cut down the bone on a finger due to not using a bench drill correctly) that bench drills require respect and discipline, this girl didn`t get it and when shown how to hold the clock face securely for her own safety didn `t like it, so she spat the dummy and screamed assault. I hope that when she is found out they throw the bloody book at her. This teacher has been named, humiliated and shamed in the paper and she is protected by law, when the case is thrown out and she is exposed as a fraud she will be made to pay nothing back, she will not have to apologize and won`t be named. The law is an ASS,the law enforcers are an ASS and the judicial system is an Ass. And by the way Oxford were sing "We are the Oxford boys" for about 7 or 8 minutes before the stewards did anything at all, it was about 10 minutes after we scored before the first knobhead was ejected from the ground. So for the anyone to say that the stewards reacted as soon as the chanting started is a blatant FABRICATION! ie bullshit!
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Post by aussie on Dec 2, 2008 10:00:40 GMT
Just been over to look at the Oxford site and some of the posters on there admit they know some of the chav`s and even names are mentioned, should this not be handed over to the Anti-Hooligan Police. Their steward recognized them so he should be questioned by police and the members( and I use that word loosely) on the Ox site should be questioned as well, apparently what we saw in our end is quite the norm for r-soles like these Ox people. Their club should be notified about this as well, because I recon if they get caught three times in one season failing to control or ban their own numpties then the club should be thrown out of the league!!!
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Post by gandalfgull on Dec 2, 2008 11:47:41 GMT
Forevertufc thanks for posting that email reply.
DaveR the reason the police are 'asked' to intervene is because the ground is private property and the club have chosen to 'police it' with stewards' There are a few 'laws' that can be broken whereby a policeman can make an arrest in the ground such as running on the field of play but not that many others.
Public order offences occur outside the ground so the spitting would have to be a complaint, if it occured in the ground, by the steward.
When you enter the ground you are agreeing to the rules and regs set out by the club, fa and licensing authorities. It is the safety officiers job to manage those rules. The 'human rights issue' makes this even harder.
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