Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Nov 30, 2008 20:13:49 GMT
What Jmgull states about the police need to be asked for assistance is true, but I have never understood why.
We had a game against Bristol, where we had away fans at the end of the popside and trouble broke out.
Yet the police just stood and watch and this was at a game where the police demanded their presence and the club would have had to pay for them.
Surly any law breaking and fighting has to be seen as just that, must become a police matter, their powers must apply anywhere and that includes the inside of a football ground.
So who's rule is it that any police in a football ground has to wait and watch disorder, fighting etc and have to wait until some steward asks for their help. It all seems a bit mad to me,maybe we have a policeman on here who could explain.
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Post by forevertufc on Nov 30, 2008 21:01:20 GMT
as i said before i was stood less than an arms lenght away from what happened on the pop side and witnessed all that went on ,
i have just e-mailed the what i saw i.e stewards inactivety,i am happy to post a copy on here if people wish and ask those who saw went on do likewise and e-mail the club ,some may think i am over reacting but this could happen again ,and we need stewards who will control the crowd.
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Post by gandalfgull on Nov 30, 2008 21:04:25 GMT
Ok I await to be shot down but here goes. More and more of the stewards are Torquay fans and some work the doors Fri/Sat in town. There are two levels of stewards SIA who can do the physical removal of fans and then there are the 'other' who are trained to a lower level. Therefore only the SIA trained can go in an eject fans. They can only do this on the say so of the Safety Officer.
I saw all of this instance and know from the police why it was handled the way it was. The stewards were advised of these fans 'may' be Oxford fans but could not prove it. We do not yet live in a state where we have to carry Id. These fans were asked for ID but claimed they had none. The police then advised these fans be monitored to 'prove' they were Oxford fans. Only when it was clear did the stewards have permission to eject them.
I am not aware of any real problems this season and most stewards seem ok. And yes we lose our bottle tops but that is a club decision or possible even council licencing (safety).
So there you go some of what I know about the idiot Oxford supporters. Oh and the yellow steps have to be kept clear as part of the safety certificate for the stadium.
And finally, promise, currently the club is police free, the officers are there purely as guests observing. The moment they get involved the club is billed thousands.
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Post by forevertufc on Nov 30, 2008 21:17:39 GMT
Ok I await to be shot down but here goes. More and more of the stewards are Torquay fans and some work the doors Fri/Sat in town. There are two levels of stewards SIA who can do the physical removal of fans and then there are the 'other' who are trained to a lower level. Therefore only the SIA trained can go in an eject fans. They can only do this on the say so of the Safety Officer. I saw all of this instance and know from the police why it was handled the way it was. The stewards were advised of these fans 'may' be Oxford fans but could not prove it. We do not yet live in a state where we have to carry Id. These fans were asked for ID but claimed they had none. The police then advised these fans be monitored to 'prove' they were Oxford fans. Only when it was clear did the stewards have permission to eject them. I am not aware of any real problems this season and most stewards seem ok. And yes we lose our bottle tops but that is a club decision or possible even council licencing (safety). So there you go some of what I know about the idiot Oxford supporters. Oh and the yellow steps have to be kept clear as part of the safety certificate for the stadium. fully understand that so why when they sarted signing oxford songs proving who they were did the stewards /police stand their and do nothing ,waiting for permission ,waiting for the right stewards to turn up ,while the safety of kids was put at risk ,and my own safety was at risk as i had more than a few oxford fans stood in front of me with no were to go ,sorry consider your self shot down my me ,some body could have been very badly hurt while their waiting for the the right stewards to turn up and get perrmission to act ,what if one of them had a knife ,sorry you got stabbed red tape says we could not act total toss |
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Nov 30, 2008 21:18:03 GMT
Many thanks for explaining that gandalfgull, I believe there has to be a real balance with the way any stewards operate. it must not be like it was when the Plymouth stewards first took over, Plainmoor has to be a welcoming place for all.
On the other hand home fans safety must be taken very seriously and known away fans must be removed from home fans areas. I take you point about being unable to prove who Is a home or away fan, but I'm sure some of our fans, who were up that end of the popside knew just who was who.
On the whole I find the ones we have now are much better and I do not feel so intimated by them as I did not so long ago.
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Post by gandalfgull on Nov 30, 2008 21:26:37 GMT
Yes Dave there used to be some really bad stewards who were worst than the hooligans. One of the local lads works loves doing the job but is torn between watching the game and the fans!
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Post by gandalfgull on Nov 30, 2008 21:51:13 GMT
Forevertufc from what I saw the stewards went between the Torquay fans and Oxford fans when they started chanting. I don't think there were enough stewards. And I can imagine stood next to them it wouldn't have been nice. But I still feel the situation was handled relatively well. I hope you get a reply from the club.
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Post by forevertufc on Nov 30, 2008 22:07:40 GMT
Forevertufc from what I saw the stewards went between the Torquay fans and Oxford fans when they started chanting. I don't think there were enough stewards. And I can imagine stood next to them it wouldn't have been nice. But I still feel the situation was handled relatively well. I hope you get a reply from the club. ok gandalfgull ,i have no wish to start a row with you with this or my first reply to you ,the stewards did not move in when the signing started ,it was when the oxford started to move towards torquay fans and some gulls responded ,admittedly it was not long but long enough |
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Post by gandalfgull on Nov 30, 2008 22:18:31 GMT
I think we will agree on it was not a nice situation and lets hope we don't have to experience it again.
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Post by papalazarou on Dec 1, 2008 10:58:41 GMT
Hi all im a new poster.
I felt i had to put my views on after standing a few feet away from this "unsavoury" incident. Firsty I my congratulate my fellow gulls for not "rising to the bait" after the oxford "fans" started chanting and walking down towards us.
It became quite clear at 3.10 when a steady stream of lads started walking down the pop that they were not torquay fans. Nobody stands in the section of the ground (behind the goal line) unless it's really busy so alarm bells were ringing.
The stewards who have become pretty good at late did not really have a clue what to do after we got our 1st. It must be pretty difficult to have to do nothing for 15ish games and then it all kick off. Some of them may never of been in that situation before in their lives. Im not defending them but its something to think about, maybe a bit of re-training is needed?
Saying that tho I can't see anybody bringing down any fans who have that element over the rest of the season.
I found it very amusing when one of them really got in a torquay fans face to which his reaction was to laugh in his face, superb well done whoever you are!!!
Also found it funny when after the fans were removed the torquay 12-15 yr old chavs all came down giving it the "big un". Five mins to late boys!
At the end of the day although it was not handled the best it can't see this happening again at plainmoor for a very long time.
Great match yesterday, what an atmosphere! Really think the sending off helped us as the fans knew we had to be vocal to help the cause and boy were we vocal. It was great to see the family stand join in, it really helped the players raise the game and you could see what it meant to them when they clapped us home after the huddle.
Great day makes me proud to be YELLOW.
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Post by forevertufc on Dec 1, 2008 12:47:04 GMT
Hi all im a new poster. I felt i had to put my views on after standing a few feet away from this "unsavoury" incident. Firsty I my congratulate my fellow gulls for not "rising to the bait" after the oxford "fans" started chanting and walking down towards us. It became quite clear at 3.10 when a steady stream of lads started walking down the pop that they were not torquay fans. Nobody stands in the section of the ground (behind the goal line) unless it's really busy so alarm bells were ringing. The stewards who have become pretty good at late did not really have a clue what to do after we got our 1st. It must be pretty difficult to have to do nothing for 15ish games and then it all kick off. Some of them may never of been in that situation before in their lives. Im not defending them but its something to think about, maybe a bit of re-training is needed? Saying that tho I can't see anybody bringing down any fans who have that element over the rest of the season. I found it very amusing when one of them really got in a torquay fans face to which his reaction was to laugh in his face, superb well done whoever you are!!! Also found it funny when after the fans were removed the torquay 12-15 yr old chavs all came down giving it the "big un". Five mins to late boys! At the end of the day although it was not handled the best it can't see this happening again at plainmoor for a very long time. Great match yesterday, what an atmosphere! Really think the sending off helped us as the fans knew we had to be vocal to help the cause and boy were we vocal. It was great to see the family stand join in, it really helped the players raise the game and you could see what it meant to them when they clapped us home after the huddle. Great day makes me proud to be YELLOW. very good post ,i wish i could get my points across as well as you do. i kind of agree with everything you say,in the cold light of day ,i can see which ever way the stewards acted they are open to 1 group saying they overreacted and 1 saying they underreacted so it must have been difficult for them. i do think in my replys on here and my e-mail to the club that i have come across a bit harsh on the stewards ,two of the stewards are personal friends of mine they are a good bunch,i just wanted to bring to the attention of the club and to people who were not down there what happened and how it could have been all avoided by the stewards being quicker of the mark ,as you say they did not seem to know what to do . the only part of your post i am not sure about is when you say this wont happen at plainmoor for a long time to come, whilst i agree for the rest of the league season it wont ,however jan 3rd we have blackpool in the cup unlikely but possiable ,and in 8 months from now we start the new season,should we be in the bsp their will be oxford again and luton ,or league 2 their are more than enough clubs with that kind of following. and thats the reason why ive posted on here strongly and e-mailed the club ,no matter how long or short the time period make no mistake it will happen again,and i think what i am trying to get at is their needs to be a clear plan with no grey area's for the stewards and policing team to follow ,so that when it does every one knows what to do to nip it in the bud before it goes as far as it went saturday. one final thing i 100 % agree with you torquay fans were fantastic saturday not just in the way we handled the oxford idiots but in our support for the team ,i still have the we only need 10 men chant ringing in my ears and a huge smile on my face ,so onwards and upwards to saturday with the club standing toghether as 1 who can beat us  |
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Post by papalazarou on Dec 1, 2008 14:08:05 GMT
Thank you forevertufc.
I agree but 8 months is a long time!! It should be enough for us as you say to put in decent measures to nip things like saturday in the bud in a quicker "more professional" manner.
Also if we go up (no chicken counting) we also will get a larger following of similar fans as those who turned up from oxford so i agree the ball should start rolling now. Well done for e-mailing the club and i look forward to hearing about their reply.
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Dec 1, 2008 16:11:08 GMT
Hi papalazarou, firstly welcome to the forum and don't worry we are all new here really ;D some of the members know others on here, from other forums.
A good well written first post and as forevertufc you put your points across very well, lets hope we can enjoy a peaceful trouble free period to the end of this season, as we know such events are really rare at Plainmoor these days.
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Post by scottbrehaut on Dec 1, 2008 16:52:51 GMT
Dave wasnt scared of what was going on anyway - the yobs couldnt see that far down......
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Dave
TFF member
Posts: 13,081
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Post by Dave on Dec 1, 2008 16:57:47 GMT
Dave wasnt scared of what was going on anyway - the yobs couldnt see that far down...... Dave is trained and dangerous mate, you ask Stuartb we has seen my all my moves  |
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