Post by Dave on Jan 4, 2013 19:58:34 GMT
I bumped into our Jon on Wednesday lunchtime; he was only his way back to his office after popping into Asda? To buy something for his lunch. I bet he was still muttering the same words he said to me all the way back to his office until he opened his mouth and put some food into it. What was that word? Expectation expectation expectation, well Torquay United fans expectations anyway, but more of that later.
There have been so many excellent posts made over the last few days, all a joy to read and ones that have given me so much to think about. I do want to firstly clear up a couple of things that Barton Downs has brought up.
The first concerns my views on the historical importance of any fans forum, I feel it might be my fault that I did not fully explain what I meant by that and so will have another go. We can all find sites that will give us the results and all the stats we might ever need such as the amount of time each team had the ball, goal attempts etc, they will in most cases be 100% correct but will only ever be one part of the story.
We can then read match reports in the local papers, the clubs own website and can generally trust the reports we read, but at the end of the day those reports are the writers own views on the game and in some cases might just be different to how a number of fans saw the game pan out.
When someone like Dave Thomas rights a report you do feel it’s a report you can trust as he has such good knowledge as far as our club is concerned and watched the team play far more times than most fans will in their lifetime. When it comes to forums we all make up our own minds whose reports we feel are a good and accurate description of the events that took place out on the pitch. What are getting recorded on forums are the fans views of the games etc, those views are a part of the whole football experience Sure some won’t be 100% correct as far as being 100% historically accurate, but they will show how our fans were feeling at any given time. So for me they do play a part in the clubs history as fans are a very important part of any football club.
The second thing is about the statement I have made on the TFF a number of times “We are back where we belong” having had time to think about this I think the problem word is BELONG. Do we really belong anywhere; do we have a right to be a football league club? The division or league we are playing in this season was decided by the results we got the one before. So what division we end up playing in at any given time is down to merit and nothing else really.
I’m sure there are fans of the bigger clubs in the conference who will tell you their club do not belong in non-league football, but why do they feel that? It’s because their club might have been a league club for all of most of its history and because of that fact, they feel that is where their club really belongs. When Torquay United joined the football league, it stayed in for over 80 years until Roberts turned up and ended it. Yes there were times we should have gone out of the league, but we did not and it’s only the fact fro most of our history we were a league club, I feel it’s where we do belong.
Bateson if he had got his way would have convinced the fans in the end we really belonged in the conference division, little old Torquay United, under supported and always punching above its weight. Is that really the case? When you look at some of the teams that have come up from the conference league, you might well end up disagreeing with the views Bateson held.
There have been teams that have come up with very poor grounds, only just fit for purpose, or needing to be upgraded to meet the required standards. Teams who at the time had much smaller gates than we are getting, did such teams deserve or had some right to be now playing in the football league? Yes they did as they earned the right to be competing at a higher level, but I still bet there will be people around who would say they don’t belong in the football league and really belong in the conference.
One thing that has concerned me is some on here have indicated they would not mind if we slipped back into the conference. The very first job our new board knew needed to be done was get the club back into the football league. They put their money into the club to make that happen and we all know how much the club ended up losing during those two seasons in the conference. Does anyone really believe such founds could be found again to get us back into the football league if the very worst thing happened and we found ourselves back in the conference?
What would have happened if Batrson had got his wish? Well rest assured it would not have been too long before there were only a handful of full time football players at the club. Gates would have fallen to a low figure never seen before at Plainmoor. The whole ground would have fallen slowly into disrepair and the downward spiral would have ended up seeing the club drop down into even lower divisions.
I happen to believe it we ever found ourselves in the conference again, it won’t be like the last time, we might never find our way back to the football league again (you know that place where we belong). And we would end up in years to come playing Buckland as our Xmas derby match. What fans we do have would very soon start losing interest in the club and it could end up sinking to a place so low, it could never rise up from at all.
We all know that we are in such a better position then we were five years ago, back then the club was broke, broken and finding itself in the worst position it has ever been in its history. Look at us now, smart ever improving ground, good youth setup and a new training ground being built. How many fans of other clubs wished they had a club run like ours? Run by people who are fans and are trying to take the whole club forward.
The problem right now is it does seem the first team has had to pay the price for progress off the field and my own view is that should not have happened as not everything needed to be done all at once. The training ground could have waited a few more years; after all we have lived without it so far and have enjoyed some successful seasons.
Fans just need to see that improvements in the team are a priority that the club is always aiming to get the team as high up the table as possible and into the next division up. If fans ever start believing the club has no ambitions at all, then they will simply stop going. But our club has ambition does it not? Why else would they be spending the money they are if that was not the case. There was so much that had to be rebuilt, so many changes that needed to be made after Roberts, it mostly now has been done and so surely now the only way is up?
Up where? To a place we may not belong? We have talked before and asked all the questions if winning promotion the first division would be a good or bad thing for the club. Did we ever really find the right answers? Higher wages bigger bills to pay and not much chance of getting that many more fans through the turnstiles. But we come back to the word expectations and our fans have always had expectations that were far too high.
I want to see more money spent on the first team, I want to see the team at the top of the table, but then when I stop and look how many fans turn up, the cost of even trying to run a club in such a far flung corner of the country, I wonder just how the club even manages to keep going, let alone aim for the stars.
The question for me I suppose is this, is the club just trying to hard to make itself look as professional as possible? Don’t get me wrong the club must always act and behave in a professional manner, but it should not forget it is only a small club operating on rather small crowds. Are such things such as a youth set really only a luxury and one we can’t really afford? I think it was Petef who asked if we would ever see the real rewards needed to really justify having a youth set up in the first place. Its no good spending money just hoping to find some young star, if the one thing you need to do well to at least try and keep the punters coming in, suffers as a consequence.
I happen to agree that it might be better to find those young top clubs cast offs, players like young Mr O’ Kane who not only was able to do a good job for us on the pitch, but earned the club money when it was time for him to move on. Cut the cloth according to its width, don’t spread what you have to thinly, is our club doing that right now?
If it cost £5 to go and watch united play, maybe fans would not expect so much, but at the price they are being asked to pay, maybe they do have a right to see some more of they money they handed over, being spent on the team. Maybe if only some of the money the club earned in transfer fees had been spent on the team, we would not have the much weakened team we do have this season.
I do not think we will go down this year, I’m sure our board would not allow that to happen, but it does need to be making louder noises and getting the message out just where it wants to go and when it is going to spend what is necessary to get there. I agree with stuartb, one should always aim as high as possible, but then in saying that, one does need to be realistic and now what can be achieved and what could only ever be dreams.
There have been so many excellent posts made over the last few days, all a joy to read and ones that have given me so much to think about. I do want to firstly clear up a couple of things that Barton Downs has brought up.
The first concerns my views on the historical importance of any fans forum, I feel it might be my fault that I did not fully explain what I meant by that and so will have another go. We can all find sites that will give us the results and all the stats we might ever need such as the amount of time each team had the ball, goal attempts etc, they will in most cases be 100% correct but will only ever be one part of the story.
We can then read match reports in the local papers, the clubs own website and can generally trust the reports we read, but at the end of the day those reports are the writers own views on the game and in some cases might just be different to how a number of fans saw the game pan out.
When someone like Dave Thomas rights a report you do feel it’s a report you can trust as he has such good knowledge as far as our club is concerned and watched the team play far more times than most fans will in their lifetime. When it comes to forums we all make up our own minds whose reports we feel are a good and accurate description of the events that took place out on the pitch. What are getting recorded on forums are the fans views of the games etc, those views are a part of the whole football experience Sure some won’t be 100% correct as far as being 100% historically accurate, but they will show how our fans were feeling at any given time. So for me they do play a part in the clubs history as fans are a very important part of any football club.
The second thing is about the statement I have made on the TFF a number of times “We are back where we belong” having had time to think about this I think the problem word is BELONG. Do we really belong anywhere; do we have a right to be a football league club? The division or league we are playing in this season was decided by the results we got the one before. So what division we end up playing in at any given time is down to merit and nothing else really.
I’m sure there are fans of the bigger clubs in the conference who will tell you their club do not belong in non-league football, but why do they feel that? It’s because their club might have been a league club for all of most of its history and because of that fact, they feel that is where their club really belongs. When Torquay United joined the football league, it stayed in for over 80 years until Roberts turned up and ended it. Yes there were times we should have gone out of the league, but we did not and it’s only the fact fro most of our history we were a league club, I feel it’s where we do belong.
Bateson if he had got his way would have convinced the fans in the end we really belonged in the conference division, little old Torquay United, under supported and always punching above its weight. Is that really the case? When you look at some of the teams that have come up from the conference league, you might well end up disagreeing with the views Bateson held.
There have been teams that have come up with very poor grounds, only just fit for purpose, or needing to be upgraded to meet the required standards. Teams who at the time had much smaller gates than we are getting, did such teams deserve or had some right to be now playing in the football league? Yes they did as they earned the right to be competing at a higher level, but I still bet there will be people around who would say they don’t belong in the football league and really belong in the conference.
One thing that has concerned me is some on here have indicated they would not mind if we slipped back into the conference. The very first job our new board knew needed to be done was get the club back into the football league. They put their money into the club to make that happen and we all know how much the club ended up losing during those two seasons in the conference. Does anyone really believe such founds could be found again to get us back into the football league if the very worst thing happened and we found ourselves back in the conference?
What would have happened if Batrson had got his wish? Well rest assured it would not have been too long before there were only a handful of full time football players at the club. Gates would have fallen to a low figure never seen before at Plainmoor. The whole ground would have fallen slowly into disrepair and the downward spiral would have ended up seeing the club drop down into even lower divisions.
I happen to believe it we ever found ourselves in the conference again, it won’t be like the last time, we might never find our way back to the football league again (you know that place where we belong). And we would end up in years to come playing Buckland as our Xmas derby match. What fans we do have would very soon start losing interest in the club and it could end up sinking to a place so low, it could never rise up from at all.
We all know that we are in such a better position then we were five years ago, back then the club was broke, broken and finding itself in the worst position it has ever been in its history. Look at us now, smart ever improving ground, good youth setup and a new training ground being built. How many fans of other clubs wished they had a club run like ours? Run by people who are fans and are trying to take the whole club forward.
The problem right now is it does seem the first team has had to pay the price for progress off the field and my own view is that should not have happened as not everything needed to be done all at once. The training ground could have waited a few more years; after all we have lived without it so far and have enjoyed some successful seasons.
Fans just need to see that improvements in the team are a priority that the club is always aiming to get the team as high up the table as possible and into the next division up. If fans ever start believing the club has no ambitions at all, then they will simply stop going. But our club has ambition does it not? Why else would they be spending the money they are if that was not the case. There was so much that had to be rebuilt, so many changes that needed to be made after Roberts, it mostly now has been done and so surely now the only way is up?
Up where? To a place we may not belong? We have talked before and asked all the questions if winning promotion the first division would be a good or bad thing for the club. Did we ever really find the right answers? Higher wages bigger bills to pay and not much chance of getting that many more fans through the turnstiles. But we come back to the word expectations and our fans have always had expectations that were far too high.
I want to see more money spent on the first team, I want to see the team at the top of the table, but then when I stop and look how many fans turn up, the cost of even trying to run a club in such a far flung corner of the country, I wonder just how the club even manages to keep going, let alone aim for the stars.
The question for me I suppose is this, is the club just trying to hard to make itself look as professional as possible? Don’t get me wrong the club must always act and behave in a professional manner, but it should not forget it is only a small club operating on rather small crowds. Are such things such as a youth set really only a luxury and one we can’t really afford? I think it was Petef who asked if we would ever see the real rewards needed to really justify having a youth set up in the first place. Its no good spending money just hoping to find some young star, if the one thing you need to do well to at least try and keep the punters coming in, suffers as a consequence.
I happen to agree that it might be better to find those young top clubs cast offs, players like young Mr O’ Kane who not only was able to do a good job for us on the pitch, but earned the club money when it was time for him to move on. Cut the cloth according to its width, don’t spread what you have to thinly, is our club doing that right now?
If it cost £5 to go and watch united play, maybe fans would not expect so much, but at the price they are being asked to pay, maybe they do have a right to see some more of they money they handed over, being spent on the team. Maybe if only some of the money the club earned in transfer fees had been spent on the team, we would not have the much weakened team we do have this season.
I do not think we will go down this year, I’m sure our board would not allow that to happen, but it does need to be making louder noises and getting the message out just where it wants to go and when it is going to spend what is necessary to get there. I agree with stuartb, one should always aim as high as possible, but then in saying that, one does need to be realistic and now what can be achieved and what could only ever be dreams.
