FL2: Torquay Utd v AFC Wimbledon 1/1/13

Using Wikipedia's population figures, missing out Barnet, Wimbledon and Dagenham because London is different, and cutting Bristol and Stoke in half, if every team in our division attracted 4% of the populace (which would be a reasonable ambition) as its average crowd the figures would look like this:

1 Bradford C 11,749
2 Plymouth 10,348
3 Bristol R 8562
4 Northampton 8500
5 York City 7912
6 Southend 6972
7 Oxford 6008
8 Port Vale 4980
9 Exeter 4784
10 Rotherham 4690
11 Cheltenham 4624
12 Chesterfield 4152
13 Gillingham 3991
14 Rochdale 3831
15 Wycombe 3692
16 Torquay Utd 2560
17 Burton 1751
18 Morecambe 1557
19 Accrington 1408
20 Aldershot 1354
21 Fleetwood 1074

Without checking I'd guess that if this table were compared with Rob's from last night the order would be much the same. It gives a very rough idea of each club's pulling power and I would expect several non-league clubs to be above Torquay using the same criteria. Please make of it what you will, bearing in mind that an added problem for the Gulls is that fewer away fans are likely to come down. I supported Chesterfield for more years than I care to recall and went to a lot of away matches but the vast majority were in the North and Midlands and the furthest I ever went was Exeter, and then only once.

Our local Geordie friend Badger completed the 92 several years ago and the last one on his list was Plymouth. In fact he once tried to work it out so that he could do Plymouth and Torquay on the same day, and he would have pulled it off too if Mrs B hadn't put her foot down.

Here's a picture I took at yesterday's match showing both the state of the pitch and showing the Big Screen in action for those not there.


Good post by Wildebeeste earlier in this thread. I must admit I remarked yesterday to my son what's the point in suffering watching matches like yesterday. There must be something better to do? However, I think it takes character at the end of the day supporting your small local team. It's also a protest about the ridiculous wages premiership stars get.

In 1994-95 Wigan had the lowest average attendance in the Football League. In 2005-06 they were playing in the Premier League

We may not have a Dave Whelan but he couldn't have dragged them to the top flight solely out of his own pocket

But he did, just as Mohammad al Fayed did with Fulham. As soon as Dave Whelan took over, Wigan changed from being poor strugglers into a side which could sign three excellent Spanish players, including Roberto Martinez. Now Wigan have the lowest crowds in the Premier League instead and sell their best players every close season just like Torquay!

Brilliant that they manage to stay up every season and I hope they do it again this year but without Dave Whelan it's fair to assume they would be either still in the 4th division or perhaps the Conference now. Sugar daddies are also doing the business at the moment for Rotherham and Bournemouth which is pretty ironic considering they were both fined 17 points for their disastrous finances only 4 or 5 years ago. No doubt it will end in tears for them and also for Crawley and Fleetwood, both of whom are a Darlington or a Rushden & Diamonds waiting to happen.

From 250 miles away I always considered Torquay to be a sort of South Western version of Northern clubs like Darlo, Halifax and Chester. So 10 out of 10 to the Board for not only rescuing the club from likely oblivion but also making sure that the pennies are watched over with care. It's a shame for loyal fans to see the team in a rut but a look at the table still shows that TUFC have won a game more than they have lost and have a positive goal difference this season in spite of losing three key players on inevitable transfers and others to long term injury. That's not bad at all when you think about it.

Impossible. It couldn't have just worked with sugardaddy owners - there has to be some kind of response from the fans too. Neither Whelan nor al-Fayed (or even Hammam at Wimbledon) could have bankrolled their clubs to the top on crowds of 2,500 - the investment created interest in the local community. People may say today that interest in Wigan Athletic is dwarfed by that of Wigan Warriors but it's much better than it was 15 years ago. I don't think Wigan fans mind struggling because they know the club is doing well to survive - and that's why a lot of Torquay fans are pissed off, because they know they could be doing better. League 2 is not the limit - we should stop this inferiority complex about being "little old Torquay" because it's harmful and only going to end up taking us downwards

That's missing the point. I'm not expecting some billionaire to turn up out of the blue and sink tens of millions in to attract people. The point is more that to generate interest, you have to do something, or at least be seen to be doing something. Conversely, if you take the current approach, investing only to keep us treading water, you're not going to attract any interest, as demonstrated by the fact that people are turning their back on the club at the moment because, as far as they are concerned, the club isn't doing enough to push on - whether or not the club is doing enough to push on is, to a certain extent, immaterial, because the perception is more important, as people won't turn up if they're not convinced. If people aren't convinced by a safety-first approach and vote with their feet, it's no longer safe

I was always brought up to aim for the stars, because if you fall you'll at least hit something half-decent, whereas if you aimed lower and fell, you could end up with sod all

But surely the club are doing something?

A bright modern stadium; a very, very bright modern scoreboard; the Family Stand revamped both inside and out; finances getting on an even keel and a decent position in the football league as opposed to sitting in the Conference.
Add in the improvement in the training facilities and the investment in the youth programme. And talking of programmes, compare the publication that is produced match-on-match by Tim Herbert compared to the effort that greeted us in the first few months of non-league football.
Sometimes the infra-structure has to be put in place to allow the chance to move on and when money is tight that may well mean a short period of consolidation as finances are placed elsewhere.

But with that investment in place, that is being disregarded by many, the time will come to kick-on again.

As for success bringing in crowds, does it really for Torquay United? Promotion, play-offs, superb cup games, record breaking runs in the league, all these have happened in the short period that this administration has been in place; I would suggest that is real success at Plainmoor, but did it improve the attendances by any significant amount?

We can yearn for the 'old days', but lets be honest, if there had been Torquay United forums running in the seventies and eighties they would probably be filled with the very same comments that are being seen here.