Dave
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Post by Dave on Dec 22, 2012 8:40:31 GMT
so are there any fans feeling guilty for their actions? the police, stewards, club officials or FA did not push and push till someone was crushed to death. From my experiences of being in (far far less serious) crowd crushes, you have no choice whatsoever whether to keep going forward. It was the job of the police and / or stewards NOT to keep directing supporters into a ridiculously overcrowded section of the ground. The fact that they failed to do their job is not the fault of the fans. I am quite sure that any fan stuck in that crush at Hillsborough will still feel traumatised and even have a sense of guilt at not being able to stop moving forward - but there was absolutely nothing they could have done to prevent it. The most sensible post on this thread so far, fans being packed in the way they were in an area all ready full to bursting point, can't be blamed in anyway at all. You do not solve one problem by simply moving it somewhere else, what ever the problem was outside the gate, it should have been dealt with properly and fans only let in if it was safe for that to happen. Football fans are paying customers, human beings who have a basic right to be protected from harm when they enter any football ground in this country. That did not happen in the case and one can't even imagine what it must have been like to have been in the stand. All I know it must have been unbelievable as 96 people lost their lives that day. I remember as a young man going to Wembley to watch a milk cup final between QRP and Sunderland I believe, it was in the days when there were standing area in the corners of Wembley. I stood up against a bar, much like I do at Plainmoor. Suddenly without warning I found myself being crushed up against that bar and it was the most frightening experience I have ever had a football match. Luckily for me all those behind me managed to get back onto the steps they had been standing on, but it could have been far worse then it ended up. Its time for people to take the blame now, while lessons have been learned, the family's now deserve some closure and that can only happen when those responsible, are charged and found guilty.
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JamesB
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Posts: 1,526
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Post by JamesB on Jul 15, 2013 15:23:32 GMT
I'm in the middle of writing my dissertation on this very subject now, and currently delving through the Daily Mail archives
My argument is much the same as what we discussed in this thread - that the culture of tarnishing football fans for violence in the 70s and 80s led to Hillsborough and the reaction to it. Looking at articles in the aftermath of Heysel, where the Mail responded in its typically fair, level-headed and sensible way, is clear proof of this
These are from Jeff Powell's report from the day after:
'The civilised world watched in sickened disbelief last night as football played its European Cup Final in a stadium from which they were still carrying the dead, dying and critically injured. Such a hold does the cult of violence exert now over the world game that they dared not risk further mayhem and mortality by abandoning the match.'
'Never has the thirst for alcohol and the lust for violence inflicted tragedy on such a horrifying scale at a football match. Whatever the arguments about crowd segregation, police inefficiency and provocation, weak walls, barriers and fences in the Heysel Stadium it is the hooligan curse on English society which is culpable.'
'Although by far the majority of them - if not all - were crushed and trampled to death when barriers and the wall collapsed, Mrs Thatcher's Government must not be deterred from prohibiting the travelling abroad of English football supporters. Those restraining links of metal work and masonry would still be standing this morning but for the forceful aggression of Liverpool's charging fans.'
After this, the Mail's sport section launched the 'Campaign to Save Soccer'. Powell wrote a further article on it the following day (1st June 1985):
'British football, the very pulse of the people, will never be the same again after the atrocity in Brussels. Whether the national game survives at all depends on a willingness to be ushered back to its Victorian origins. Mrs Thatcher is about to lead the most profound social revolution of our sporting times. Her tools will be modern technology, the values will be those she preaches from the old-fashioned pulpit of family life, law and order. Yesterday's removal of English clubs from all European competition is only the start of a crusade with which the Prime Minister intends first to save soccer, then drive the merchants of violence out of football into retreat and isolation.
The first step will be to restrict attendances at football matches solely to card-carrying members of the home club. If the Government has its way there will be no visiting supporters from Tottenham at Arsenal, or fans travelling from Chelsea to Manchester United as from the start of next season. The repercussions for football may be enormous - not least a massive, if temporary, slump in revenue until decent family support returns to the stands and terraces - but they are transcended by the implications for society. The hooligans, the kind of sub-humans who brought death and destruction to Wednesday's European Cup Final between Liverpool and Juventus, will be flushed from the cover of the crowds and on to the streets.'
'And, crucially, football will be forced to comply. That was made clear by the end of yesterday's 75-minute briefing at 10 Downing Street with sports writers just returned from the horror in Brussels. At the unprecedented meeting, Mrs Thatcher sought eyewitness accounts of the bloodbath and recommendations for preventing future violence. She was shocked to hear how quickly the first signs of a riot developed into a massacre. And we were in agreement that evidence of poor policing, slack crowd segregation and crumbling fences and terraces could not excuse the "animal behaviour" of the English fans. The Prime Minister said: "There is a cancer that can be cured only by stripping away all the dead wood and starting again."'
I don't know where to start. So much emotional rhetoric and reactionary nonsense crammed into so few words. And the analysis from football expert Margaret Thatcher is priceless
The funny thing is, in the years after this, the Mail might attempt to claim victory - even though not all the legislation proposed here was enacted (the compulsory ID card scheme was quietly dropped after Hillsborough), club hooliganism largely died out after this point (even though it was all exaggerated to begin with - perhaps a good way of making it looking like they were "winning the fight"). But of course there was violence associated with England fans right up to the Charleroi riots during Euro 2000. It's interesting how there is that great difference between the two forms
Incidentally, the Mail's reaction to Hillsborough is quite different, suggesting the fences should come down (after their reaction to Heysel, that's quite hilarious), though there's still an article on Sir Oliver Popplewell saying there's still too much hooliganism and 'you must ask yourself if it is right that our police resources should be utilised in this way when the vast majority of the population are not interested in going to football matches. There is also the very real danger that when you have large crowds you also increase the risk of violence.' Interestingly, they did report the allegations of fans fighting police officers trying to help victims, but they reported it in a 'the police have said' way, unlike The Sun's 'The Truth' article which stated it as if it were objective fact
I suppose you can rationalise this by saying that the Mail were keen to point out the difference between this and actual violence because it suited their perspective - the little man vs the big man. Whereas in the past the Liverpool fans were the "big bullies" picking on the "poor, innocent" Juventus fans, this time they were the victims, so they would ignore any contradictions in what they've said and pretend that what they said 4 years previously had nothing to do with establishing the context in which Hillsborough played out. Even though they are being quite fair on this occasion, the lack of self-awareness is still frustrating
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