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Post by plainmoorpete on May 13, 2018 13:52:12 GMT
Please don't mention the Snowflake generation! What's the latest thing they are being offered, £10000 when they reach 25! Hey, I've got a radical idea, why don't they get off they're arses and work for it! Perhaps the younger generation need the extra help because previous generations have pulled the ladder up so high they can't hope to catch up. I don't know how old you are, but consider this. You, when young, probably enjoyed better health care than your elders did or your Mother may have been helped by receiving child benefit for you that was denied to earlier generations. I too am fed up of hearing younger people derided by older generations, who truth be told are simply envious of their youth. For the record I am 56 years old.
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Post by plainmoorpete on May 13, 2018 13:57:04 GMT
The term snowflake is, however, being bandied about to anyone who has a sense of decency or compassion, usually by those with political tendencies to the right of Enoch Powell. Care about the fate of child refugees? That must mean you’re soft and therefore a snowflake. Actively state that racism is wrong? Then you must be a snowflake who takes offence at ones right to spew fascist bile. How right wing was Mr powell though? In 1945 he voted Labour and although he did then go on to join the Conservative Party by 1974 he had turned his back on the Conservatives and he endorsed a vote for Labour, which is thought to have been very influential in the Labour victory as Mr Powell was popular amongst all strands of society but mainly the poorer working class traditionally Labour voters. He was one who was not afraid to confront difficult issues and always clearly put forward his views. Not many of them about now, Kenneth Clark perhaps being one of the few exceptions. Powell didn't turn his back on the Tory party, they sacked him. He endorsed Labour in 1974 because he thought they were an anti Common Market party and offered the best chance of pulling Britain out of Europe.
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Post by stefano on May 13, 2018 15:30:10 GMT
How right wing was Mr powell though? In 1945 he voted Labour and although he did then go on to join the Conservative Party by 1974 he had turned his back on the Conservatives and he endorsed a vote for Labour, which is thought to have been very influential in the Labour victory as Mr Powell was popular amongst all strands of society but mainly the poorer working class traditionally Labour voters. He was one who was not afraid to confront difficult issues and always clearly put forward his views. Not many of them about now, Kenneth Clark perhaps being one of the few exceptions. Powell didn't turn his back on the Tory party, they sacked him. He endorsed Labour in 1974 because he thought they were an anti Common Market party and offered the best chance of pulling Britain out of Europe. I know - although I think you will find that endorsing a vote for Labour is turning your back on the Conservative Party. An issue he was wrong on and probably could not have imagined that 42 years later 17.5 million others would be duped by the same arguments!
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hector
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Post by hector on May 13, 2018 16:48:32 GMT
The term snowflake is, however, being bandied about to anyone who has a sense of decency or compassion, usually by those with political tendencies to the right of Enoch Powell. Care about the fate of child refugees? That must mean you’re soft and therefore a snowflake. Actively state that racism is wrong? Then you must be a snowflake who takes offence at ones right to spew fascist bile. How right wing was Mr powell though? In 1945 he voted Labour and although he did then go on to join the Conservative Party by 1974 he had turned his back on the Conservatives and he endorsed a vote for Labour, which is thought to have been very influential in the Labour victory as Mr Powell was popular amongst all strands of society but mainly the poorer working class traditionally Labour voters. He was one who was not afraid to confront difficult issues and always clearly put forward his views. Not many of them about now, Kenneth Clark perhaps being one of the few exceptions. Oswald Moseley also flirted with a variety of political colours before settling on his black shirts and fascism.
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Post by stefano on May 14, 2018 7:22:40 GMT
How right wing was Mr powell though? In 1945 he voted Labour and although he did then go on to join the Conservative Party by 1974 he had turned his back on the Conservatives and he endorsed a vote for Labour, which is thought to have been very influential in the Labour victory as Mr Powell was popular amongst all strands of society but mainly the poorer working class traditionally Labour voters. He was one who was not afraid to confront difficult issues and always clearly put forward his views. Not many of them about now, Kenneth Clark perhaps being one of the few exceptions. Oswald Moseley also flirted with a variety of political colours before settling on his black shirts and fascism. Yes he was a strange one. It was quite a popular idea though back in the 1930's. I suppose just like Brexit is now - I expect in 90 years time May, Boris, Gove etc will be looked on in the same light as Moseley for the destructive affect they had on Britain (if of course there is such a thing as 'Britain' in 2108)
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simonb
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Post by simonb on May 14, 2018 7:33:37 GMT
Suspect many already think that May, Fox, Johnson, Gove et al are treading a path of destruction!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 14:19:44 GMT
Please don't mention the Snowflake generation! What's the latest thing they are being offered, £10000 when they reach 25! Hey, I've got a radical idea, why don't they get off they're arses and work for it! Perhaps the younger generation need the extra help because previous generations have pulled the ladder up so high they can't hope to catch up. I don't know how old you are, but consider this. You, when young, probably enjoyed better health care than your elders did or your Mother may have been helped by receiving child benefit for you that was denied to earlier generations. I too am fed up of hearing younger people derided by older generations, who truth be told are simply envious of their youth. For the record I am 56 years old. A bit busy at the moment, will post somewhat more substantial later...just thought you might like to see what one of your derided angels has been up to lately! www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/young-woman-thrown-to-ground-and-mugged-by-10-year-old-boy-in-east-london/ar-AAxfx4q?ocid=spartandhp
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rjdgull
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Post by rjdgull on May 14, 2018 17:09:31 GMT
Bit of a push Reg to use one rotten apple to condemn an entire generation....
A big difference between the over 65s and under 30s is their likelihood to vote with politicians focusing more on those likely to re-elect them.
The younger generation are also the future of TUST....
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 18:03:26 GMT
rjdgull rjd doesn't shy away from highlighting an issue that worries several Trust officials. Young fans are not being attracted by an organisation that instead holds more appeal to their crusty Corbynista grandfathers. Populated by a substantial number of 'seniors', no doubt hoping Trust will give them the means to relive the Militant 1970's one last time, Trusts are finding themselves being given a wide berth by young fans. My research for 'Trustwatch' never ceases on behalf of TFF readers, and only a matter of weeks ago (16th April, to be precise) I noted the concerns made public on this very issue, as Exeter Trust admitted young City fans were adopting a 'Just Say No' whenever an old Commie approached them offering them sweets and a Trust membership form. The Supporters Trust is always looking to expand its membership and we are currently aware of a drop in members between the ages of 16 and 23.We would love to find out the reason for this and invite anyone falling between this age category to join us in the Junior Grecian Family Zone for an open discussion at 5pm on the 21st April (Directly after the Crawley game).A frank admission from the Exeter Trust, but it's a city populated by Students and not little Scargills. Just as you don't want your Mum or your Dad following you on Facebook,neither do you want to find yourself sat next to your Grandad discussing whether Grandma would be willing to crochet a blanket in blue and yellow wool. Honorable and commendable causes of course, but it's not going to enthuse the snowflakes. Perhaps a TUST member would give us a rough approximation of how many under 30's turned up to the Livermead Hotel recruitment, oops I mean ideas evening ? However you look at it, it's clear that the future of TUST is not safe in the Snowflake's hands
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 19:34:24 GMT
I would recommend everyone read the latest TUST official communication as it is packed with good news. It seems fair to say that TUST are now almost fully on board as TUFC embarks upon it's exciting journey to a more successful future. Just thinking back a year or more to the antagonism that existed, and it seems hard to believe that Clarke Osborne and TUST will be moving forward hand in hand.
Given his extensive business interests, I'd assumed that our busy Chairman and 'Chief Strategist' would be hard pressed to make further time for TUST, but his generosity and commitment to the club is amply demonstrated by his stated intention to meet with our friends from the TUST on a monthly basis.
But most pleasing of all was this news contained in the new report:
'This led on to further discussions around a local board and the appointment of a fan based representative either to the board directly or to an official role as such. This is certainly something he is keen to explore further'.
Something I've advocated for some while, and it's very pleasing to learn it's coming closer to fruition. Getting TUST inside the tent would be an incredibly wise move, and a fitting reward for their sensible, supportive, and above all, moderate attitude over recent months.
A successful, and hopefully a promotion winning season ahead, with fans favourites such as Brett Williams already raring to go, and now with the more sensible TUST being slotted in, enabling them to feel fully integrated as we move forward with the bigger schemes involved in the grand project that will see the Osborne Arena rise to dominate the Torbay skyline by 2020.
Congratulations to all involved in these latest friendly talks, and the news that new style Moderate TUST have given such a clear indication that they want to be part of our team rather than appearing to be part of the opposition will be applauded by the vast majority of supporters.
#ForwardTogether #OsborneTUSTAlliance
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simonb
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Post by simonb on May 14, 2018 19:52:45 GMT
But is CO tustworthy?
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midlandstufc
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Favourite Player: Dawkins lol
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Post by midlandstufc on May 14, 2018 20:04:04 GMT
Yep, keep your friends close and your enemies closer etc...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2018 20:49:55 GMT
simonb If he's not, and he's saying one thing but doing another, then TUST should be in a far better position to become aware of this if they have a position at local board level, or some other official capacity. A phone call of over an hour a few weeks ago, a face to face meeting lasting over two hours last Thursday. The bonds of trust might not be unbreakable just at the moment but let's commend the efforts being made to improve on this....as the report states, meeting such as this give: 'the opportunity to get a clearer picture of his thoughts for the club at this point whilst looking to build some trust and confidence between each party'.
Let's keep on improving on the existing levels of trust and understanding. And if TUST can keep putting forward realistic and level headed representatives, rather than the many firebrands that we know still exist in the background, then our Chairman will be more likely to trust them in return.
It will be up to TUST to play their part in combating the scare stories which the TUST Militants will no doubt continue to put out. As the report we read this evening states: 'The huge positive from our meeting was the fact that he felt TUST could play a big part in the communication void that currently exists'.
And they must insure that this is done. For too long the Militant fanatics have been portraying the extremist face of TUST. We now have hope that under it's new leadership, and first class head of Communications, we will instead hear a message of cooperation and mutually working together. The sort of messages missing for too long, particularly from the Forums, and which moderate TUST members need to do far more to see gets through to challenge the hard left approach which may have done lasting damage to TUST, and that will take a long time to repair.
Trust will be a two way thing, but it might already be flourishing. As Maggie would say 'Let's just rejoice in this news'
#OsborneTUSTAlliance
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2018 7:58:42 GMT
Bit of a push Reg to use one rotten apple to condemn an entire generation.... A big difference between the over 65s and under 30s is their likelihood to vote with politicians focusing more on those likely to re-elect them. The younger generation are also the future of TUST.... Goodness, I'm still busy. I've been bashing away for over a month now and I still haven't finished! Should have learnt to use both hands I suppose!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2018 9:07:23 GMT
TUSTWATCH - LET'S SUPPORT THE 10th MAY AGREEMENT What is the future for TUST in light of the historic Osborne -TUST Alliance (OTA), entered into on May 10th? How difficult will the transition from playing a destructive to a constructive role prove to be? And finally, a question that can’t be ducked however much we might prefer to do so; could the TUST Militants still sabotage the new partnership? While we won’t be aware of every last detail within the small print of the OTA, enough information has been released to suggest it is a hugely positive step. Some early dissenting voices heard elsewhere, are clearly already unhappy at the level of gratitude expressed, insinuating that Mr.Osborne has allowed a few crumbs to fall from his table, and TUST should not be seen bowing and scraping as they rush to gobble them up. To me that doesn’t take into account the fundamental weakness of TUST’s current position, and why resistance is therefore futile. Over recent months TUST has been busy making it’s moderate bed, and I’m convinced it will prove to be more comfortable than the old Militant mattress it hopes to set fire to when it’s more extreme members aren’t looking. It’s important to step back and acknowledge that the conditions and scope for Militancy are gone. Think back 2, 3 or 4 years when the Forums were packed with talk of ‘Community Ownership’ and the Militants seemed to rule the roost. Thea badly wanted out, and the search for anyone to take over ownership was going badly. There was a real fear, not only felt within Alpine Towers, that TUST might emerge triumphant. Then we witnessed the Philips consortium, somehow keeping the club alive on a shoestring, but all the time TUST were there in the shadows waiting to pounce. In those dark days, it really did feel as though we were looking down the barrel of TUST’s Community Ownership gun. That we could wake up one morning and find they’d invited the Supporters Direct hardliners in to seal our fate. On each occasion we escaped by the skin of our teeth, and the tables have now been well and truly turned as regards relative strength. Instead of dealing with Thea or the Philips consortium, where both ownerships were looking for a way to get out, we are all aware, as TUST’s report reveals, that Clarke Osborne has a strong and unrelenting grip on the club. A grip he has every intention of keeping and strengthening in the years ahead,, as he pours in the funds to finance various projects, not least of which will be the assembling of a promotion ready squad for next season. Yes, it’s a different kettle of fish that TUST are faced with now, and they have had no option but to take the road signposted ‘Cooperation’. But it wasn’t solely the advent of the Osborne era that was the catalyst for the radical repositioning and moderate overhaul that TUST has undergone. The crucial event in the eyes of many, was the ill-fated ‘Pre Share Offer’ of a few years ago. If one event brought home to TUST that it had to cease letting it’s Militant faction set the agenda, then that was it. The Torbay and South Devon Community sent a painfully clear signal that they had no interest in backing TUST’s proposals. From that moment I’m certain it became evident to TUST that it was faced with a stark choice: either pack up and go home, or make the radical changes necessary, discard the old ideology, and give TUST a genuine new look that was more than skin deep. It’s done that, and in return it’s now been rewarded by the club. And let’s not underestimate the massive changes witnessed from only a few years ago when the so called ‘benefits’ of Community Ownership were being rammed down our throats. The transformation we see today is a credit to TUST and its determination to bury it’s past. A young fan can now browse the TUST website, and come away barely knowing that the concept of ‘Community Ownership’ exists, let alone much explanation of it, so fully has it been jettisoned. In fact I think I only noted one single mention of it, tucked away in the ‘Frequently Asked Questions’ dropdown if you cared to click on it….and thenjust to make clear that Moderate TUST has not the slightest concern in favouring Community Ownership over Private Ownership, and indeed, you don’t read of one being favoured above the other. The contrast with the old days is total, and consequently must be a most bitter pill for Militants to swallow. This is why I’ve been desperate to see the club acknowledge the transformation for the better that TUST has undertaken. The added security of an alliance with the club could prove vital to it when it has to withstand the backlash from the Militant section of it’s membership, many of whom have not as yet fully cottoned on to the implications of the Osborne-TUST alliance. That backlash will inevitably come, but with the steadfast backing of Clarke Osborne and TUFC, I believe that Moderate TUST can withstand it, and cast the Militants adrift once and for all. Moderate TUST have embarked on a brave new course. It will see them being sniped at with increasing regularity by Militants but it can and must hold its nerve. The changes have been so great and so fundamental, that TUST would find retreating to its previous position virtually impossible. The historic May 10th declaration, proclaiming the formation of the Osborne-TUST Alliance is a vastly significant signpost to a brighter future for new moderate TUST. Let’s give them support and praise for turning their back on a less than productive past, and congratulate them on taking the first tentative steps along a path of cooperation so generously laid out for them by the club.
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