Jon
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Post by Jon on Jun 24, 2012 10:48:17 GMT
The recent transfer activity has prompted question about previous fees received. Does anyone ahve a full set (not the abbreviated one) of either the 2006/07 or 2007/08 accounts? If someone could PM the profit / loss on disposal for 2006/07 - or better still a scan of the P&L page - then I could list out fees received by season from 1992/93 to 2010/11. In the meantime, I can list fees paid by season - although I would need Rags to tidy it into a decent table. Can anyone put names to values? 1992 / 1993 21,000 1993 / 1994 9,000 1994 / 1995 0 1995 / 1996 91,238 1996 / 1997 42,900 1997 / 1998 250 1998 / 1999 131,750 1999 / 2000 32,500 2000 / 2001 85,800 2001 / 2002 32,000 2002 / 2003 9,350 2003 / 2004 4,350 2004 / 2005 75,000 2005 / 2006 5,000 2006 / 2007 17,500 2007 / 2008 43,000 2008 / 2009 8,000 2009 / 2010 41,500 2010 / 2011 0
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 19:22:33 GMT
The recent transfer activity has prompted question about previous fees received. Does anyone ahve a full set (not the abbreviated one) of either the 2006/07 or 2007/08 accounts? If someone could PM the profit / loss on disposal for 2006/07 - or better still a scan of the P&L page - then I could list out fees received by season from 1992/93 to 2010/11. Sorry, I've had a clear out!
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Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Jul 3, 2012 4:56:27 GMT
£250 for Scott Partridge in 97/98?! That will shut-up those who accused the board of not pushing the boat out to support Kevin Hodges!
I'll be revisiting this thread later when I've got some time, even just to document the profligate spending of the Wes Saunders era!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2012 9:42:57 GMT
£250 for Scott Partridge in 97/98?! That will shut-up those who accused the board of not pushing the boat out to support Kevin Hodges! Or we could romanticise it a little by saying the £250 was a sweetener to Torrington for the services of Kevin Hill.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2012 10:43:36 GMT
I guess this ties in with the question about “undisclosed” fees because - from memory - I cannot recall clubs ever being obliged to disclose fees. It probably comes under the catch-all of “commercial confidentiality”. Therefore we’ve always had a mixture of fees disclosed by the clubs together; by just one of the clubs; amounts which have been admitted or disclosed in retrospect; educated guesses and the wholly fanciful. Reference and year books often use a caveat along the lines of “as widely reported in the press at the time”.
Over time the waters have been muddied by instalment plans, sell-on clauses and extra payments based on a number of appearances, honours, achievements, etc. Frequently there’s a basic figure given that “rises to” in the eventuality. Increasingly, too, there’s the business of fees being paid for loan players although I’m none too sure how much this happens at our level.
The issue of staggered payments could have a delayed impact on the figures quoted in club balance sheets - either us making an extra payment for a player after a period of time or our receiving of money when a former player has progressed or been sold.
For reference the current Sky Sports Football Yearbook - and I’m not saying that is any more or less accurate than other sources - gives our record fee paid as £75,000 for Leon Constantine; record received £650,000 for Rodney Jack. Unless anybody knows any different…….
It’s a nice little poser from Jon and he’ll know that the centenary history (which covered the years to 1999) placed a monetary value on around twenty transfers between 1992/93 and 1998/99.
During this period incoming transfers included Mark Sale (£10,000), Jamie Ndah (£20,000), Alex Watson (£50,000), Paul Baker (£25,000), Andy McFarlane (£20,000), Robbie Herrera (£30,000), Brian Healy (£25,000) and Eifion Williams (£70,000).
Outgoing: Matt Elliott (£50,000), Paul Holmes (£40,000), Chris Myers (£90,000), Mark Sale (£20,000), Adrian Foster (£60,000), Paul Trollope (£100,000), Greg Goodridge (£100,000), Darren Moore (£65,000), Paul Baker (£15,000), Scott Stamps (£10,000), Charlie Oatway (£10,000), Rodney Jack (£500,000), Matthew Gregg (£400,000), Andy Gurney (£100,000) and Scott Partridge (£100,000).
That list is worth quoting in full just to show how active we were in developing and selling players during that period. I’m sure there are others to add such as Duane Darby.
Another incomer from that time: Steve Winter from Taunton. I remember a £10,000 fee being quoted somewhere. That surprised me because he’d only played a couple of games for Taunton who must have signed him on a contract knowing there was other interest.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2012 13:42:05 GMT
Looking at old copies of Rothmans, other 1990s sales are recorded as Paul Hall (£100,000), Duane Darby (£35,000), Chris Curran (£50,000) and Ian Gore (£5,000). All other amounts listed in those yearbooks - save for a small discrepancy over the amount received for Darren Moore - are as per the centenary history. From later editions of the Rothmans/Sky Sports yearbooks quoted received fees include Wayne Thomas (£200,000), Mark Ford (£15,000), Eifion Williams (£30,000), David Graham (£215,000), Leon Constantine (£20,000) and Elliot Benyon (£150,000). “Undisclosed fees” obtained for Jamie Ward, Adam Murray, Kieran Charnock, Matt Green, Mustafa Carayol and Nicky Wroe. In the meantime, I can list fees paid by season.....Can anyone put names to values? 1992 / 1993 21,000 1993 / 1994 9,000 1994 / 1995 0 1995 / 1996 91,238 1996 / 1997 42,900 1997 / 1998 250 1998 / 1999 131,750 1999 / 2000 32,500 2000 / 2001 85,800 2001 / 2002 32,000 2002 / 2003 9,350 2003 / 2004 4,350 2004 / 2005 75,000 2005 / 2006 5,000 2006 / 2007 17,500 2007 / 2008 43,000 2008 / 2009 8,000 2009 / 2010 41,500 2010 / 2011 0
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Again I’ve delved into back number of Rothmans/Sky Sports which purport to list all the previous season’s transfers. In reality I’m never sure that the lists are complete and there’s probably increasing confusion about what exactly constitutes a transfer. A contracted player moving from club to club should be simple enough. An out-of-contract player moving to a new club is less straightforward. I’d guess the intention is not to include these but some probably do get counted. For example you wouldn’t expect to see Lathaniel Rowe-Turner: Torquay United-Luton Town (free). But you might do. Certainly, when looking at more recent listings, you see the trends of the transfer window, the rising number of temporary deals and the greater incidence of undisclosed fees. Also, over the period since 1999, there seem to be lengthy periods where we’re not recorded as paying a transfer fee for anybody. Yet we would have been involved in costly “free transfers” throughout that time. Anyway, based on Rothmans/Sky Sports, a few possibilities for Jon’s list: 1999/2000: Stuart Jones (£30,000) 2001/2002: Marcus Richardson (undisclosed); Sean Hankin (£20,000) 2004/2005: Leon Constantine (£75,000) 2005/2006: Matt Villis (undisclosed); Anthony Lloyd (undisclosed) 2006/2007: Lee Mansell (undisclosed), Adam Murray (undisclosed) 2007/2008: Roscoe Dsane (undisclosed) 2008/2009: Scott Bevan (undisclosed) 2009/2010: Kieran Charnock (undisclosed); Chris Zebroski (undisclosed); Lathaniel Rowe-Turner (undisclosed) Yes, as pointed out by Ohtobeatplainmoor, “profligate spending” during the Wes Saunders era. And a healthy amount spent in 2007/2008 which I’m sure wasn't entirely blown on Roscoe Dsane. Were fees involved when we signed Messrs Nicholson, Todd, Hargreaves, Sills and Phillips? Speaking of whom, Lee Phillips has just joined Chippenham Town and is working in the printing business in Swindon.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jul 3, 2012 19:34:02 GMT
A few more clues. We also know when the players signed for fees left if they did so after 30 June 1998. Season | At 1 July | In | Out | At 30 June | 1998/1999 | 78,750 | 131,750 | -5,250 | 205,250 | 1999/2000 | 205,250 | 32,500 | 0 | 237,750 | 2000/2001 | 237,750 | 85,800 | -107,750 | 215,800 | 2001/2002 | 215,800 | 32,000 | -138,300 | 109,500 | 2002/2003 | 109,500 | 9,350 | -89,500 | 29,350 | 2003/2004 | 29,350 | 4,350 | -33,700 | 0 | 2004/2005 | 0 | 75,000 | 0 | 75,000 | 2005/2006 | 75,000 | 5,000 | -80,000 | 0 | 2006/2007 | 0 | 17,500 | -17,500 | 0 | 2007/2008 | 0 | 43,000 | -17,500 | 25,500 | 2008/2009 | 25,500 | 8,000 | 0 | 33,500 | 2009/2010 | 33,500 | 41,500 | -33,500 | 41,500 | 2010/2011 | 41,500 | 0 | -10,000 | 31,500 |
[/td][/tr][/table]
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Post by ohtobeatplainmoor on Jul 5, 2012 18:47:58 GMT
Nico was a free from FGR as he was at the end of his contract, ditto for Hargreaves from Oxford. I believe Sills was released from his single year at Hereford as well.
There were fees for Todd and Phillips - I believe it was about £10k for Todd and about £20k / £30k for Phillips. Offers were made (and subsequently rejected) at the time for Exeter players including Danny Seabourne and Jamie Mackie! I think we got great value for Toddy - an inspirational guy in a time when that word is overused. Phillips was OK but not a very dedicated professional when he was at Exeter - although I'm not sure what he was like when he was playing for us....
I remember the signing of Steve Winter - he was perhaps unlucky to have been released in the summer of '97 - but then again we brought-in Andy Gurney!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2012 19:44:18 GMT
Jon, what does your latest table mean? Does it mean that the fee we paid for a player is then re-recorded in the “out” column when he leaves? There were fees for Todd and Phillips - I believe it was about £10k for Todd and about £20k / £30k for Phillips. Offers were made (and subsequently rejected) at the time for Exeter players including Danny Seabourne and Jamie Mackie! I think we got great value for Toddy - an inspirational guy in a time when that word is overused. Phillips was OK but not a very dedicated professional when he was at Exeter - although I'm not sure what he was like when he was playing for us.... Checking Wiki - as you do with caution - the quoted £7,500 fee for Toddy rings bells. There's also mention of us paying £17,500 for Phillips which - if I'm reading Jon's latest table correctly - explains the outgoing figure for 2007/08 (Phillips leaving us at the end of his only season). The £17,500 for previous season equates to the figure we're believed to have received for Adam Murray. You can read that as saying we got what we paid for him. But, providing I'm following this correctly, that would contradict us paying a fee for Lee Mansell. Further back, to the era of Wes, we paid the best part of £100,000 for Williams and Healy in 1998/99; both left during 2001/02
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jul 5, 2012 22:01:31 GMT
Jon, what does your latest table mean? Does it mean that the fee we paid for a player is then re-recorded in the “out” column when he leaves? Sorry it wasn't clear, but yes you've got the idea. Up until 1998, transfer fees received and paid were booked straight to the profit and loss account. From 1998, player fees were treated like fixed assets and written off over the period of the contract with a profit and loss on disposal generated when the player is sold or released, being the fee received less any remaining book value. So the first column is what the players under contract at the start of the season cost, the second column is fees paid during the season, third column is players sold or released during the season AT THE FEE WE ORIGINALLY PAID FOR THEM, final column sums the three to give what the players under contract at the end of the season cost - which then becomes the starting figure for the following season.
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