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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 21:59:22 GMT
I just typed in the Good Old Days in goggle and was very surprised I could not find anything I was looking for to back up what I had said about how people never locked house doors etc. Mind you I did read one piece about how police in one city recently went around at night and were shocked to find a number of homes that were not locked up. I’m sure there’s loads of versions. There usually are. This one is from Ireland: www.gaycork.com/forum/threads/growing-up-in-ireland.1003/There’s also another one referring to a 57 Holden as the dream car. From Australia I assume?
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Jun 7, 2012 22:05:23 GMT
I'm not a huge fan of the Sopranos but I think this sums it up quite nicely
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jun 7, 2012 22:08:16 GMT
It’s not so much a case of “the world was a better place when we young” but that “the world was a more enjoyable place because we were young”. That’s quite a distinction. Spot on. Did anyone else watch the Dominic Sandbrook series on the 70s? The world was falling apart as Slade sang Merry Xmas apparently. None of it bothered me as a ten year old. Mind you, can you trust the story teller? Looked far too young to be a proper historian. Wouldn't have been allowed back in my day.
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Post by ricardo on Jun 7, 2012 23:07:22 GMT
Yes, Jon, I watched the Seventies series and thought it was well written and presented. I agree with Barton's assessment that the days of our 'youth' tend to be regarded as golden days simply because we were young and knew how to enjoy life! And, as we all know, the 70s produced the best music ever!
The other excellent TV series that took me back was '56 Up'. For the un-initiated this programme is shown every seven years and has followed the ups & downs of a cross-section of people since their seventh birthday. The older one gets the quicker the gaps between each series seems to pass!
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Jun 7, 2012 23:20:33 GMT
Mind you, can you trust the story teller? Looked far too young to be a proper historian. Wouldn't have been allowed back in my day. lol I didn't watch the series, nor am I especially familiar with Sandbrook's work. However, a quick flick through Wikipedia and reviews of his work suggests that he's an empire apologist and a lot of his work is particularly critical of Labour, which suggests he fits into that bracket of modern TV historians who tend to favour political/macro-history and sit on the right politically (like Niall Ferguson and David Starkey - the Labour-supporting Schama is an exception). I'm not a huge fan of that kind of thing - aside from being a lefty, I find social and cultural history to be a lot more relevant, and the model established by Ranke of focusing on high politics is largely discredited now However, I did enjoy Andrew Marr's two series on British history, which covers 1900 up to a few years ago. I know he's not necessarily the most popular figure on TV at the moment, and apparently his recent series on the Queen was ghastly, but it covers a wide range of subjects without passing judgement on it. If the 70s series was like that, I may check it out as that would be good The post-war era from 1945 up to the present is the period I most enjoy studying and would like to continue working on (at the moment my MA dissertation is going to be on the relationship between popular music and politics), and some of the more recent decades haven't been covered much within academic history yet, although I should imagine its a growing area. The populist historians will get there first but there will be academic studies eventually, even if I'm the one doing them
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jun 7, 2012 23:25:25 GMT
Yes, Jon, I watched the Seventies series and thought it was well written and presented. I agree with Barton's assessment that the days of our 'youth' tend to be regarded as golden days simply because we were young and knew how to enjoy life! And, as we all know, the 70s produced the best music ever!Indeed. Chirpy Chirpy Cheep Cheep will never be bettered. I found the series fascinating because I thought I knew about the 70s because I lived through them and can remember them vividly. I could talk you through the goals of all the 70s Cup Finals and name all the teams and what they all had for breakfast. I probably know all the lyrics to every top 10 hit of the 70s. But really I knew buggar all about what was going on in the adult world. The series was nostalgic for me on one level but extremely educational on another. I might not have enjoyed the decade so much had I been twenty years older.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jun 7, 2012 23:42:25 GMT
it covers a wide range of subjects without passing judgement on it. If the 70s series was like that, I may check it out as that would be good I would have thought you would find it interesting. I would say that the slant on it was that the 70s made the 80s inevitable, whereas the more commonly aired view seems to be that the 80s were a sudden and violently unexpected shock. It seemed to portray Thatcher more as tapping in to an existing mood than creating a new mood. I think I have tended to believe the latter. There's no harm in putting a different slant on things if the argument is well-presented and well-reasoned. The truth, as it usually is, is probably somewhere between the two. Or you can forgot all that politics nonsense and just enjoy the music, the spacehoppers and the party sevens.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 6:57:26 GMT
I would say that the slant on it was that the 70s made the 80s inevitable, whereas the more commonly aired view seems to be that the 80s were a sudden and violently unexpected shock. It seemed to portray Thatcher more as tapping in to an existing mood than creating a new mood. I think I have tended to believe the latter. Hughie Green always had his own insight into the world around him:
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Post by aw on Jun 8, 2012 8:14:42 GMT
Ignore the Commies, their all noise bless `em! Commies? Zero tolerance policy towards them in places such as Australia, I believe. Excuse me Sir? I don`t know what your talking about! America is the place for zero tolerance towards the Reds! Reds vs Rednecks, good old Cold War days, proper ignorance!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 8:54:35 GMT
How inspiring to hear the late great 'Sir' Hughie Green urging the British to come to their senses again. I found Hughie's 'Land of Hope & Glory' to be particularly rousing and although he was looking ahead to 1975 his call 'For God Sake Britain Wake Up' was eventually heeded by 1979 when the Socialist rabble were overthrown & sanity started to return. What a pity that Hughie's own daughter didn't wake up & listen to the good sense of her dear old Dad. Instead of cavorting with Geldof who perpetually looked as though he'd just spent a week at Sidmouth Folk Festival, with neither soap nor shampoo for company. Moving on to drug addled Hutchence was jumping from the frying pan into the fire for her. Although we can forgive Hughie the occasional dalliance, he knew that good traditional British values, the ones often exemplified by the upright (except those suffering from rheumatism) citizens of Sidmouth, were what was needed to get the country on its feet again.
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JamesB
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Post by JamesB on Jun 8, 2012 12:01:19 GMT
Funnily enough, I've just downloaded the latest issue of the Blizzard, and there's an article by Dominic Sandbrook in there, on how Scotland's 1978 World Cup failure affected Scottish nationalism...
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jun 8, 2012 18:47:09 GMT
Funnily enough, I've just downloaded the latest issue of the Blizzard, and there's an article by Dominic Sandbrook in there, on how Scotland's 1978 World Cup failure affected Scottish nationalism... That theory came up in the TV series.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jun 8, 2012 18:51:34 GMT
What a pity that Hughie's own daughter didn't wake up & listen to the good sense of her dear old Dad. Instead of cavorting with Geldof who perpetually looked as though he'd just spent a week at Sidmouth Folk Festival, with neither soap nor shampoo for company. Moving on to drug addled Hutchence was jumping from the frying pan into the fire for her. Poor old Paula thought she was rebelling against her father - who she thought was that funny little bloke who tinkled on his organ while waffling about God - by taking drugs and sleeping with rock stars. If she had only known that her real father's "good old fashioned values" centred on sleeping with the vicar's wife, she probably would have spent her time drinking tea, eating cucumber sandwiches and watching "Stars on Sunday".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 22:16:40 GMT
The post-war era from 1945 up to the present is the period I most enjoy studying and would like to continue working on (at the moment my MA dissertation is going to be on the relationship between popular music and politics), and some of the more recent decades haven't been covered much within academic history yet, although I should imagine its a growing area. The populist historians will get there first but there will be academic studies eventually, even if I'm the one doing them I’ve read Seventies: The Sights, Sounds and Ideas of a Brilliant Decade by Howard Sounes mainly because I was less acquainted with the cultural aspects than I was with the politics. Then I hesitated when Dominic Sandbrook’s series of post-war books first appeared and found myself instead following the social history trail of David Kynaston ( Austerity Britain and Family Britain). Unfortunately his output appears to have slowed and it’ll be some time before the paperback versions of anything beyond 1957 appear (perhaps he’s been diverted by Aldershot getting back in the league?). Then there’s Andy Beckett...... Yes, keep the academic flag flying but – for us oldies – it’s more likely to be the more popularist stuff that retains our interest these days. Although, funnily enough, I was sniffing around a few of my old student haunts recently. This made me realise that the manner of the teaching of politics and history in the mid 1970s is probably, well, ancient history itself by now. How are the Maoists doing these days in the universities? Struggling a little I’d imagine. Mind you, can you trust the story teller? Looked far too young to be a proper historian. Wouldn't have been allowed back in my day. Ah yes, Gilbert Head-Rapson......not that I’d have placed him in the neo-Marxist category (or was he on the quiet?). No doubt Mr_W will shortly oblige with full room details, third year timetables and historic exam papers. Funnily enough, I've just downloaded the latest issue of the Blizzard, and there's an article by Dominic Sandbrook in there, on how Scotland's 1978 World Cup failure affected Scottish nationalism... Without seeing either the article or the TV programme I can only surmise what he may be arguing. My reading would be that devolution didn’t fail in the late 1970s because of the shambolic campaign in Argentina. It’s more complex than that. Maybe to do with, at that time anyway, a relative ease with a dual British/Scottish outlook and identity. Perhaps too, because politics was actually rather bogged down and stodgy in the 1970s, many Scots may not have fancied an extra layer of government. Furthermore, from memory, I think the offer from the Callaghan government was rather tepid. But, had the Scots done well in the 1978 World Cup, a momentum could have gathered to create a desire for devolution that might have embraced a wider cross-section of the electorate. In this way I’m sure the devolutionists and nationalists understood the potential importance of football. As it happened, in football terms anyway, there was a massive gap between the dream and the reality. It was a bizarre business really because, helped by Ally MacLeod’s enthusiasm – and a decent squad of players – the Scots genuinely believed they could do well even to the extent of winning the whole bloody thing. England not being there – for the second time in succession – was another dimension although, in fact, there was considerable goodwill from the English public and the London media. Naturally this followed the old “British when they win; Scottish when they lose” pattern and there was soon the opportunity to cheer and mock in equal measures. So maybe, after building their hopes so highly, failing so bloody dismally in full view of the sodding English dissuaded some Scots from devolution idea? Years later, as it happens, you have to ask what would have been the fate of a Scottish assembly (or whatever was on offer) during the time of the Tory government? After all, look what happened to the GLC, in particular, and local government in general. Oddly, even though Scotland were still getting to tournament finals when Labour re-floated devolution in the late 1990s, it’s been downhill for Scottish football (national team and club sides alike) since the establishment of the Scottish parliament. Perhaps, at least, that illustrates there’s more to being Scottish these days than supporting eleven blokes on the football pitch. Mind you, it’s easy to get tied up in knots when attempting to make linkages been football, politics and identity in Scotland. Just how do you reconcile the British identity of Rangers (jubilee tea parties at Ibrox this week, I see) and the Irish culture surrounding Celtic with political allegiances and voting patterns? I wonder if there’s been some research into this with regard to the development of a Scottish parliament? Not that I'm encouraging James to re-consider his MA proposal.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 23:24:12 GMT
I’m so glad that Alpine Joe was a devotee of Hughie Green. I wouldn’t have expected anything less. I trust he will relish this performance from towards the finale of the great man’s career: My mum loved Hughie Green and Opportunity Knocks was required viewing in our house. Unfortunately she had to suffer her Smart Alec son’s obvious disdain towards the masterful entertainer and showman. And, yes, his lack of appreciation reached its’ peak when those wonderful New Year messages left him rolling around in hysterics. What was it about? All that call to arms stuff? And why should 1975 and 1977 have been greeted with such trepidation? You know, I’m still not sure. National debt, the unions, Europe maybe. But there was a lot of it about and it was almost as if a generation or two – accustomed to empire and war – was conditioned to having an “enemy”. The Russians were pretty bloody inept at being a plausible external enemy so how about the enemy within? And, for some people - including a number of my mother’s relatives - it was students. Especially social science students. The bastards! And why didn’t I get my hair cut? Or get a job? The post-war era from 1945 up to the present is the period.... and some of the more recent decades haven't been covered much within academic history yet At times people even spoke in whispers about the possibility of either a military coup - or a group of old soldiers at the very least - taking power should these damn union types become too bolshie. I doubt if that was too serious a proposition but, in the interests of wider reading, I do remember a book called Britain in Agony: the Growth of Political Violence by Richard Clutterbuck which appealed to a certain point of view. May be worth a punt should you ever be seeking a particular contemporary viewpoint (but try not to spend much more than 50p on it) Poor old Paula thought she was rebelling against her father - who she thought was that funny little bloke who tinkled on his organ while waffling about God - by taking drugs and sleeping with rock stars. Ah yes, Jess Yates also known as “The Bishop”. Didn’t a few show girls and aspiring actresses get the opportunity to tinker with his organ off stage?
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