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Post by Budleigh on Apr 25, 2011 21:11:04 GMT
An early photograph that I am trying to research… It looks like it should be a Torquay team, especially as it is part of a collection from Torquay and it has Torquay written on the back. But is it? And when and where was the picture taken? Added note: The army figure is a Captain wearing a World War I officer's uniform and is probably before 1920 as that is when the cuff badges, as worn by him, were abolished, and after 1902 as that is when that style of cuff was first introducedThere are obviously eleven players shown, along with dignitaries and others crowded around, and would seem to be in celebration of winning the cup seen with the player at the front. The cup resembles the Devon County Cup, as seen below top, right-hand (no.5). If so it is fairly early in it’s creation as it hasn’t got the additional plinths for later winners to be engraved on as seen in this 1934 picture. Or is it a different trophy altogether? Under an eye-glass it is difficult to tell although there may be some slight differences. The only problem with this is that this trophy wasn’t won by Torquay at this time; indeed the first winners in 1900-01 were the soon-to-be-disbanded Exeter United, and then in 1904-05 the recently named Exeter City, formerly St Sidwells. The trouble with black and white photos is that it is obviously impossible to tell the colour of the stripes in the kit, and although they resemble both types worn by Torquay in this period, with the centre stripe being either white or black, it is also very similar to Exeter City’s strip, even down to the same style of socks that both teams wore. Having said that Exeter’s strip nearly always only had the white stripe down the middle and not the dark one as seen on a number of shirts in this picture where the team are wearing a mixture of the two. One early Exeter picture does shows them with a kit having this different form of shirt but it appears to not be the norm for them. It is also worth noting that Exeter may well have still been playing in their original green kit at the time of winning the trophy. Added note: Having researched further, it can't have been Exeter City winning this trophy in 1905 as they didn't play in red and white stripes until October 1911. So is it Torquay? Or is it Exeter? Or is it another team altogether? And is it the Devon County Cup? Apologies for using this thread as a note book and adding bits as I look into this...But I see that, if it is the Devon County Cup, then the winners immediately after the First World War and on resumption of the competition, were, for the years 1919/20 and 1920/21, Friernhay from Exeter who played near Priory Gardens, just across the river at Flower Pot fields. This view could well be from the higher part of the Bartholomew cemetary; looking over the catacombs toward Dinham, being the properties seen in the distance; with the trees on the right going along Bartholomew Street West and the arch just seen to the right of the hat on the man at the rear being the entrance that is still there, but now archless. I still feel though that this is a Torquay side of that period.
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Post by Budleigh on Apr 26, 2011 8:43:11 GMT
Apologies... any one coming back to this thread may want to re-read what I first posted as I've changed it as new info has come to light.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Apr 28, 2011 21:57:15 GMT
When you say "the Devon County Cup", do you mean the championship of the East Devon League? If so that would rule out any Torquay-based clubs. How does the trophy compare with the South Devon (Torquay & District) League championship trophy? (league formed in 1903! ) My first thought was Babbacombe Reserves who did the double of Torquay and District League and East Devon Cup in 1914. Babbacombe FC also won the whist shield of the Torquay Whist and Cribbage League in 1913 - but I don't think it is that.
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Post by Budleigh on Apr 29, 2011 7:17:28 GMT
Gosh... you took your time Jon! Been busy?
I'll put up that cup's description in a sec...
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Post by Budleigh on Apr 29, 2011 7:54:44 GMT
I'm not certain that the trophy in the team pic is definately the one in the Handbook photo (no.5), but the description of this latter one is:
Devon County Cup; donated by the Devon County Football Association; To be played for by clubs in Junior 1 Division, this trophy is for use on the Knock-out principal, to provide extra matches for all Clubs in the Junior 1 Division. Fee 5/- payable before the first round.
The East Devon league trophy is very similar in appearance and is no.3 in the picture, so it isn't the same competition.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on May 2, 2011 17:00:16 GMT
I'm not certain that the trophy in the team pic is definately the one in the Handbook photo (no.5), but the description of this latter one is: Devon County Cup; donated by the Devon County Football Association; To be played for by clubs in Junior 1 Division, this trophy is for use on the Knock-out principal, to provide extra matches for all Clubs in the Junior 1 Division. Fee 5/- payable before the first round. The East Devon league trophy is very similar in appearance and is no.3 in the picture, so it isn't the same competition. So is that the Devon Junior Cup - or just a cup for East Devon teams?
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Post by Budleigh on May 2, 2011 17:03:48 GMT
I had another good look at the picture up at Plainmoor today and I reckon you could be right and the man in the front row of this picture may be Bill Luscombe. I'll take a copy up next time and stand the two together to try and get a better idea.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on May 2, 2011 17:11:04 GMT
I had another good look at the picture up at Plainmoor today and I reckon you could be right and the man in the front row of this picture may be Bill Luscombe. I'll take a copy up next time and stand the two together to try and get a better idea. We need a pic of the TDL/SDL trophy then. Could be Babs reserves 1914.
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Post by Budleigh on May 2, 2011 19:11:28 GMT
These Devon cups are confusing! The one possibly in the main picture is called The Devon County Cup and was a knock-out trophy inaugurated in 1900 for Junior teams and was won by such as Exeter Town, Frierenhay and Bovey St. Johns and was competed for by such teams as Dawlish Argyle reserves, Copplestone, Heavitree Congregational; Morchard United and Chagford. All these latter competitors are from the East Devon League’s Junior divisions although the cup may well have been for the whole of Devon as the winners list includes teams not shown in my 1935/35 East Devon League handbook. The Devon Junior Cup is a different competition. I have a winners medal from this competition dated for the 1931/32 season (won by Friars Argyle) and is typical of the Devon County FA style used at the time and would seem to make it obvious it was a Devon-wide competition as well. Again the winners list in the handbook is mostly made up of Exeter teams, for instance St Sidwells, Alphington, City Asylum, along with Starcross, Ottery St. Mary and Topsham St. Margarets. Just to add to the confusion: looking at another picture in my collection I find there is the Devon Junior Knock-out Cup, which I had assumed was the same as the Devon Junior Cup (this also being a knock-out trophy); but, as the photo below shows, this was won by Priory Amateurs in 1934/35, who also won the Taunton & District Thursday League and the Devon Fellowship Junior League in the same season. I’m assuming this is a Taunton-based team playing at the Priory, especially as the player second from right at the back (A. Ford) is wearing his county cap and a badge on his jersey embroided with the Somerset emblem and initials ‘S.C.F.A’. So what are they doing playing in a Devon competiton? In this picture are, presumably, the three trophies they won, shown enlarged, and none are seemingly of the Devon Junior Cup (No.1, top left in the photo of cups as seen earlier in this thread). Not only that but none resemble any of the trophies shown in my handbook to be for Devon Football Association cups. So are their two different Devon Junior Cups?
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