Managers: what do we think of them?

You are right Dave.

I can remember the bloke behind me shouting out "You are awful" during that Rochdale game.

I started watching watching TQY during the 1979/80 season when that Turner, Murphy, Cooper, Lawrence team was at it's peak. As a child and being less cynical than I am now, it never occured to me that Torquay should change their manager. I just hoped and hoped that it would go well. It was the following season that I remember the slow hand-claps and the Pop Side shouting 'Green Out' that I remember finding this distressing and I felt so sorry for Green crumpled in the dug-out having to listen to it all.

It was only later that i realised that sometimes a manager is just either unlucky, crap, does not fit in and so needs to leave.

Sadly, especially under Bateson we suffered too many turkeys as managers. People like Compton, Saunders, Cornforth should never never have been anywhere near the managers job.

However, here is my quick overview of managers in charge since I have been watching.

Mike Green:
built that wonderful team that then collapsed to 9th place but for me I could never decry Green for the joy and fondness for which I remember that team.

Frank O'Farrell:
I thought as a 12 year-old his appointment would guarantee promotion. based on his previous record...but some years before, perhaps the directors did too but after 3 opening wins it becamse a montonous season and it was no loss when he retired.

Bruce Rioch:
I think most Torquay fans at the time recognised we had a potentially excellent manager on our hands. As a kid Bruce Rioch to me was like Roy Race. A World Cup captain and super player. I was devastated when he left and the circumstances which forced his resignation. Really sad but was delighted for him when he achieved so much later on.

Dave Webb:
I hated him from the very beginning. He was taking over from my hero and dismantled the team and filled it with Boiurnemouth rejects. The kit, the badge, the stand, the bottom place finishes. Hated him.

John Sims:
Sort of appointment that Bateson might have made. You see many clubs make appointments like this when a despot is in charge. It never works out. Probably stayed about 32 days too long.

Stuart Morgan:
So wanted it to work out for him. Nice bloke but ultimately I can remember thinking he needed to go. What Cyril then did with basically the same team bore that out.

Cyril Knowles:
A legend for me. He did not manage what two later managers did but I think after the misery of the previous few years that 1987/88 season was an absolute dream. To even be near promotion, yet alone nearly get it, plus beating Spurs and the FA Cup run and thrashing Coventry in a 0-2 defeat. Probably my favourite season ever, even though it ended so sadly.

Dave Smith:
I think Bateson probably wanted to make his mark. Smith should have been left alone to manage the team and it was really sad when he left.

John Impey:
First of Bateson's many cheap yes-men. Despite him getting us over the line for promotion, I never felt he was up to managing at the level (League 1) were acquired.

Wes Saunders:
He was caretaker for so long, that he can sort of be counted as a manager. Ridiculous decision. Surely it could not be repeated.

Ivan Golac:
On a hiding to nothing really. We were so far adrift that there was little he could do and then he quickly left.

Paul Compton:
I just never, could never, have never and will never understand this appointment. Utter stupidity and neglect of duty by Bateson. A disgraceful decision. I could never abide Compton.

Neil Warnock:
Though officially a consultant he was technically the manager. Brilliant. Would have loved it if he could have stayed but was never going to happen and I guess there would never have been room for his and Bateson's egos.

Don O'Riordan:
I liked Don O. Think he was shafted by Bateson really. Having to start that fateful 95/96 season with forwards like Byng and Laight, a team phot that only had 13 players including the physio and a departed Greg Goodridge. O'Riordan was a victim of his own success. That 94 play-off team was constructed on a shoestring so Bateson I think thought it could always be done that way. History will judge O'Riordan by that 1-8 defeat but it should not be so harsh. In fact Bateson himself says sacking Don O was his biggest regret of his time at Torquay.

Mick Buxton:
For one game in the cup v Orient. Probably the best manager we never had. Really hoped we would get him. At the same time gary Megson wanted the Torquay job. Instead we got...

Eddie May:
Just reminded me of Dave Webb. A cockney spiv and similarly awful.

Kevin Hodges:
Did a great job but again when only offered a one-year deal by Bateson, it did not surprise me that he accepted a 2-year one offered by Plymouth. Since leaving us, he has not done much and I really hope people are not serious in suggesting he could be a candidtae should Buckle leave.

Wes Saunders:
Why? Why did we even go there? Again! Only Torquay at that time with Bateson on his self-imposed 'gardening leave' and puppet Benney pretending to be in charge could we make this joke appointment. Saunders was cheerleading the fans at the start of the play-off final, with Helen Chamberlain. She could not have been a worse appointment. He was working in clothes factory and playing for a pub team when he got the Torquay job. Utter madness and predictably he was crap. Even worse was the knowledge that Micky Adams wanted the job. Nobody in their right mind would choose Saunders over Adams, excpet soemone who wanted a puppet in charge.

Colin Lee:
Saved us from Saunders shambles. What happened over that summer was a shambles too. I really hoped we would get him as he seemed forward thinking and ambitious. I guess that sort of attitude did not sit well with Bateson.

Roy McFarland:
Did a brilliant job really when you consider what he inherited and how little time he had to sign players and build a team. And what a team he left for us.

Leroy Rosenior:
I thought we had a manager who was going to manage at the top level during those first two years. Even the season we were relegated I could see was more down to budget than incompetence. But the lack of contacts, the whole living in Bristol thing complicated things. never understood the hostility some have towards the manager - one of only 3 - to lead us to automatic promotion but likewise I would not be one of those calling for him to return.

John Cornforth:
Utterly pointless, lazy, stupid appointment. Appoint someone like that and what do you expect. exactly what we got.

Ian Atkins:
Not everyone's cup of tea but I liked what he did for us. A miracle that he managed to save Bateson's bacon that season.

Lubrik whatever...cannot even remember his name:
Appointed Hancox as assistant because they 'hit it off looking around Torquay' apparantly. Was a puppet. Useless but felt sorry for him.

Keith Curle:
Was a harsh environment and set of circumstances to judge him on. But I wouldn't want him back.

Paul Buckle:
Has done very well for us. I worry that he is too abrasive at times and falls out with players but history has proved him to be correct on more occasions than not. Would not want to see him go.

The managers I can recall at Wolves

Graham Taylor- Never given a fair amount of time but did commit blasphomey (I think that's how you spell it) by trying to sell Steve Bull

Mark Mcghee- The only remarkable thing about his reign was he could remember the names of all the players he signed

Colin Lee- Did his best but not good enough. Was glad to see him go

(Sir) Dave Jones- Has my respect and I was genuinly sad to see him go. Had no chance of keeping us up but we beat Man U at least

Glenn Hoddle- Less said about this guy the better. Champagne corks were popping in Wolverhampton when he left

And finally


I like Mick McCarthy and am grateful for everything he has done for Wolves... However I am concerned that he spent £16m in the summer but still plays virtually the same team from the championship! I really hope he can turn things around and keep us up again but I have to say I feel next season maybe a change is needed regardless of what division we end up in as I do not feel that MM can take us any further.... Now I want him to prove me wrong

That’s a lovely starting point for an excellent historical analysis from Hector which pretty much fits my own view of the managers of the last thirty years. Maybe I’m in danger of falling into “invented memory” syndrome but Eric Webber had been in post for twelve years when I first watched Torquay United. As a child I could have been half-excused for thinking he had the same security of tenure as, say, the manager of the town’s waterworks. "Well, he’ll carry on to sixty-five, won’t he?" might have been something my grandma would have said and even my father - not the most patient of supporters - might have been quietly sorry to have seen the departure of Eric.

I’m half-tempted to tot-up Hector’s analysis of managers as "good, bad or indifferent" and plot the results on a bar graph. How then would they compare to others' perceptions? Note how Hector also reveals how his opinion of certain managers changed as time passed and how some appointments didn’t make sense from the start. My theory is that every football manager, everywhere, starts with a Initial Disapproval Rating based on the percentage of the support which is essentially “anti” at the time of his appointment. Human nature as it is, let’s say this figure is at least 5% irrespective of the manager or the club. Some Plainmoor managers (Bruce Rioch for example?) would have started close to this mythical figure; others (Compo?) would have commenced with a relatively high Disapproval Rating.

And what of Paul Buckle? Well, had he been a Mike Bateson appointment, I suspect he would have experienced a high initial Disapproval Rating: cheap; local; too much in the mould of Compton, Saunders, etc. But, as he was appointed by those we appeared to respect (Colin Lee and the new owners) I guess his rating would have been healthier. Yet, I fear the “if he’s not good enough to be Exeter’s manager; he’s not ****ing good enough to be ours!” viewpoint might have added a few percentage points.

Then there is the Mounting Disapproval Rating which, if it could be measured, shows how the mood towards a manager changes over time. Once this goes above a certain rate it becomes noticeable; beyond another scale point disapproval almost becomes endemic. I imagine Don O’Riordan and Leroy would be excellent case studies. In fact the disapproval rating at the point of departure would also make for interesting analysis. Plenty of managers have left with many fans being against them; few have left when their approval rating was relatively high.

Football fans certainly do like “pedigree” and “glamour” Nick and it does not matter how big or small the club they support is. I would bet Manchester United fans would feel they have bragging rights, when their club signs a world super star player. But then such big clubs are expected to sign those big name players and that’s why I think when a club our size, lands a big name, it really does make our club seem so much bigger and important than it really is.

You tell people Neville Southall played in goal for us, Bruce Rioch was once our player manager, Chris Waddle, Colin Lee etc all played for us and I’ll tell you what, some will think you were pulling their leg. I used to always wonder why they were at such a small seaside town, what was the attraction? Why Torquay and not some better known and bigger club in the lower leagues. Not sure I ever came up with that many answers, but then maybe I was more content just using their names to have bragging rights where my own club I supported was concerned.

My own personal working experience has always led me to believe, the best managers in any field, are the ones who came up from the bottom. They are the ones who learn the job at all levels and as a result has a far better understanding of the workforce.

I have been in jobs were college types were brought in and I had to on occasions take them out with me say on a milk round, to see what the job was all about at my end of the company. I have more than often felt, they are the worst sort to have as managers, why? simply because they don’t have that real knowledge that someone who worked his way up would have.

I lost count over the years how many new directives were sent down by some new manager who was brought in from the outside that was total madness and would not work. So many times it was clear to see what was lacking in the decision making, was that vital undertanding of the job itself and what it really entailed.

It therefore goes without saying, I believe all football managers should come from those who have been in the game at all levels, IE as a player and then maybe moving up to an assistant manager, before taking the next step up.

I suppose it could be argued that any person who was good at man management could be taught the game of football on a blackboard. The objects of the game, the rules, formations and tactics could all be leaned in a classroom, but without that real experience of playing the game etc, could such a person really be that successful?

The real question has to be what makes a good manager and there lies a real problem. Simply because not only in fans eyes but also clubs themselves, one day the manager could be the best there is( based on size of club and what could be afforded) and the next he is no longer good enough to remain as the manager and gets sacked.

For me it has to be someone who knows the game inside out, knows how to prepare his team so that even if the team were complete underdogs, they still could get something out of the game. Good contacts are essential to bring in the right players along with knowing how to get the best out of the chosen players.

Man management skills are also at the top of my list and that is something many would be managers seem to lack. There will always be difficult players to deal with and for use of a better word, control, but keeping the dressing room happy and everyone playing for him the manager, has to be something my manager has to be able to do. Putting personalities to one side for the good of the club is something else my manager would need to display, but we know many managers are unable to do that and the reason players sometimes leave clubs.

Being honest with the fans is also very important and not looking to make excuses for a poor performance or a game that was lost. If a manager wants respect from the fans, its no good him saying we were robbed, or where the better team just after we were played off the park and hardly got a kick of the ball.

Going back To Norman Medhurst, I never really looked how the England set up was at the time, for me it was just watching an England game on the TV and seeing a shot of him and thinking, that’s our man on the TV.

Quality mid-week reading!



I would say Cyril was the first Manager that I can say that was in charge when I was a regular - the others I was too young to judge either way. I would say that I agree with all of Hector's observations (although perhaps might not have been quite as critical of Cornforth - I'd be interested to know his win to games ratio compared to Leroy that season and Colin Lee and Neil Warnock in their firefighting roles - maybe we would be surprised?).

I've always had at least a little sympathy for the managers that have given 100% - and the only two that game-off the impression that wasn't the case was Eddie May and Leroy after he moved from Kennford and back to Bristol and didn't work full time for our club.

The only manager who we could say offered us nothing but total improvement and "success" was Kevin Hodges IMO. He saw the writing on the wall and went at the right time - even though the destination of his departure really hurt! Perhaps the failings of a manager was not knowing when to move-on - Don O' surely could have managed at a higher level, perhaps my second favorite manager only to Cyril. Sadly his name was tarnished, perhaps by the loss of several players and having to work with a restricted budget - I'm sure that he would have brought the club on if he had the resources that May used to sign Alex Watson and Paul Baker for a total of £70k in transfer fees alone (and no small signing-on fee in the case of Baker!).