Rugby in Torbay

I’m sure I read an article only recently that described rugby as the “main winter sport” in the South West. Even allowing for a definition of the region stretching from Cornwall to Gloucestershire (both strong rugby areas of course), I think this is a misconception which springs from inside rugby union. I think it occurs for two reasons.

Firstly, when rugby union looks at each part of England it would contend that the SW is one of its strongest areas. The East Midlands comes close – remember rugby’s popularity around Leicester and Northampton – and there’s definite pockets of strength (and we may need to encounter social class in this thread somewhere) around London and the other major cities. But rugby along the south coast (between Hampshire and Kent), up into East Anglia and over wide swathes of the Midlands? Well, it’s pretty low-key and very much in the background. As for Rugby League in parts of Lancashire, Yorkshire and Cumbria, that’s another rather complex issue.

Secondly, if you look from outside rugby union, you’d have to contend that the gap between the popularity of rugby and football is narrower in the SW than elsewhere. I’d still put football well on top but there are “rugby towns” (Gloucester, Bath and Camborne/Redruth being the most obvious) and others where the differential is in the balance. It’s a hard one to call in Devon but there appear to be places where the biggest single sporting institution is the rugby club: Exmouth, Barnstaple, Brixham, Paignton, etc. That’s not to say more people play rugby than football in those places (because each will have a number of football clubs) although it might be true to say the rugby club is a particular focus of attention.

Torbay is an interesting one. Is Brixham a rugby town? Well, maybe, because the rugby club has traditionally achieved well for a community of Brixham’s size. It also has excellent facilities and, I would imagine, is a topic of conversation in the town. But that’s not to decry a strong football culture based around the three main clubs. Put all of these factors together and I’m led to believe this limits Brixham's interest in Torquay United more than you may imagine (any thoughts on this?).

What of Paignton? Again the rugby club is the biggest single club, helped by the fragmentation of football in the town across a number of clubs (although nearby Galmpton and Stoke Gabriel now perform at a decent level). Paignton RFC are doing okay in SW1(W) – same division as Brixham; one above Torquay – and command a relatively high degree of attention (compared to towns elsewhere). But a rugby town? I think not. I may be naive, but I hope Torquay United is the sporting topic that gets 'em talking in Paignton.

And, before Torquay, what of Newton Abbot? A rugby club competing in National 3(SW) – third ranked in Devon on current standings – a second rugby club (Newcross) and two semi-pro football clubs in the Peninsula League (plus several SDL clubs). Hard to call but, again, rugby weighs in with a heftier presence than in many other towns. Let's just call it a good all-round sporting town irrespective of code.

As for Torquay we’ve previously recalled rugby’s strength in the early 20th century which was almost manifested in a switch to Rugby League. We’ve also spoken of the days – broadly, shall we say, between the 1920s and 1960s – when the Tics had a strong fixture list featuring visits from many big clubs seeking an enjoyable weekend in the town. Along with the Rec playing host to the odd representative game, this gave Torquay Athletic a certain “kudos” and – when Grandstand read out the results of Rugby Union games (friendly matches only in those days) – Torquay’s result was invariably included. And, from memory, whenever a rugby annual listed details of individual clubs you can bet that Torquay was in the fifty-odd included. In a albeit smaller game (in terms of the number of clubs and players) this still gave Tics a certain importance. Also, I would contend, that the men who mattered within the community were to be found in the clubhouse at the Rec.

Others probably are better-informed than I, but I believe Torquay Athletic ’s status started to decline when the bigger clubs dropped them from their fixture lists to concentrate on playing each other. Then, once rugby union started to organise itself into leagues in the 1980s, Torquay couldn’t compete. I don’t know the full story but, were you to turn the clock back fifty or sixty years, it would be a rude shock to now be playing the likes of Bude, Wellington, Okehampton and North Petherton. A few corpses would surely turn in their graves over the prospect ("Saracens? No, no, Major, Exeter Saracens!"). Bloody hell, the whole idea of Exeter Chiefs and Torquay Athletic now taking the field together would probably contravene every article in the health and safety manual.

From a Torquay United perspective I guess we have to accept that, compared with many clubs we play, we’re more susceptible to people within our catchment area being led astray by rugby. In our current division the clubs which have it hardest are Cheltenham and Northampton. Stockport and Wycombe share with Sale and Wasps respectively although I’m not sure how much these non-traditional alignments are affecting support for the football club (but I noticed Wycombe and Wasps have a joint shop in the town). Rotherham and Southend have decent rugby clubs; Saracens may yet land on Barnet’s doorstep and – of course - Bradford is a big rugby league town (overlapping seasons). Otherwise it’s not rugby territory at all.

And is the success of the Exeter Chiefs impacting upon Torquay United? I don’t think so but, to be honest, I’m not entirely sure. My immediate impression is of the Chiefs attracting a latent rugby support – extending over most parts of Devon and up to Taunton (before the Bath interest kicks in) – of the type you see on the trains to Twikkers. And, in the SW, this support probably has a broader socio-economic profile than in other parts of the country. Sandy Park is also – in marketing terms – a “clean, safe, family environment” and seemingly free of local inter-town rivalries. Aside from Plymouth, the Chiefs certainly come across as the club for Devon and I noticed Chiefs calendars on sale in Newton Abbot yesterday. Are they attracting converts from football? Don’t know. Are the Chiefs garnering a greater share of commercial activity and sponsorship? You bet they are.

As for the balance with football, I know Exeter City supporters who are concerned about the long-term equity between the two clubs. At present, of course, they are relieved that City’s recent improved fortunes have corresponded with the rise of the Chiefs. Whether is a blueprint for the future remains to be seen. Can both be successful or will one wane? It may depend on how much the two are competing for the same constituency (as well as the usual factors which determine success or failure). In the meantime, one or two people were surprised when I posed this question at the start of the season: who will get the bigger crowds – Plymouth Argyle or Exeter City? Additionally, you may now care to ask, which will have the greater joy in expanding and filling stadiums?

I don't think of Rugby Union as a "popular game" as in a game of the people - with the possible exception of fishing communities. The game was stuck in a rut as an elitist sport for a century and is only now starting to try to escape from that.

I don't really know why the game with a funny-shaped ball took a hold in South Devon in the 1880s and 1890s in preference to soccer.

When soccer did come to Torquay it quite quickly blew rugby out of the water as a far faster and more entertaining game. Torquay Town bringing a decent standard of play gave soccer the upper hand.

Rugby had a big chance to adapt and change to the faster moving and more "people friendly" Rugby League during the 1912/13 season, but the "connections" of the RU types managed to spike this.

I wonder how the local sporting landscape would have unfolded if the local Rugby League team had succeeded in winning, or at least sharing, the Rec in 1913. We will never know.

Rugby Union has always benefited from council favouritism due to its "connections" - nudge nudge wink wink funny handshake say no more.

Prime sites at The Recreation Ground, Torre Valley North and Queen's Park all dedicated to a minority sport - how did that happen?

It might be tricky to read, but the article below from 1913 reflects on how Rugby missed its chance to compete with soccer as a spectator sport. Nearly a century on, I think the writer was spot on.

I have been doing a little discreet research on this... as you do!

Although I didn't exactly take a scientific approach to this idea, what does become apparent is that there are a number of 'floating' sports fans in the area, especially the Eastern border, Teignmouth, Newton Abbot etc, who would now pick popping up to watch the Chiefs play over coming along to Plainmoor if they were looking to catch a game of some sort on a Saturday afternoon.

In Torbay, yes, but also in certain agricultural, mining and industrial areas elsewhere. And, I’m sure I’ve asked this before, but why Gloucester?

I can almost think of a comparison between “working-class Tories” and “working-class rugby supporters” (who might occasionally be the same people). Whilst each may be following a minority path, there are arguably proportionally more of them in the South West than in many parts of the country. Or – switching political tack - how about the oft-cited West Country “traits” of liberalism, non-conformism and rugby union? Speaking as a Devonian, Labour-voting, football-watching atheist I’ve a sneaky feeling Cornwall is the epicentre for that one.

I’ve also been pondering the old Gentleman/Player, amateur/professional divide in county cricket. Apparently at some counties, including Somerset, the pros did most of the bowling and chasing around the field; the amateur gentlemen batted (not always with distinction) and fielded in the slips. It makes you wonder if, in rugby, the sons of the soil and toil did the heavy work whilst their social superiors took all the glory. An analysis of the occupational background of rural rugby clubs (by player position) in, say, 1930s or 1950s Devon would make fascinating reading.

As would the process of how the football or rugby club came to pre-eminence in each community. From our travels around Devon we’ve seen how many football clubs are well over a hundred years old. This suggests football and rugby clubs being set up all over the place between the 1880s and 1914. Did the Squirearchy help with land for the rugby club? Was rugby akin to the old village feast day “football” matches and of greater appeal to sturdy lads who worked the land? Or did the boys from the factory or the goods yard get together to form a football club? I suspect there’s many a tale to be told in the battle for supremacy.

And, if you accept rugby’s relative popular appeal in rural districts, was the sport more suited to the more “stable” communities of the countryside as football made massive progress in the growing towns? Certainly it’s worth remembering that the Victorian and Edwardian eras were a time of massive population growth and urbanisation. By 1911 the population of England and Wales had reached 36 million, around 70% of the 2001 total. This is double what it had been in 1851.

In Devon, by contrast, many places (eg Totnes, Kingsbridge, Dartmouth, Honiton, Credition, etc) hardly grew during that period and some even lost population. Meanwhile the population of Newton Abbot, as defined by the parishes of Highweek and Wolborough, increased from around 4,600 to 12,500. Torquay and Paignton (using figures for the parishes of Cockington, Paignton, St Marychurch and Tormohun) increased from around 16,500 in 1851 to 42,000 in 1901.

This, I’d contend, placed Torquay and Paignton in urban Britain (certain differences notwithstanding) in common with other resorts and the many manufacturing towns which were experiencing similar growth at that time. This was characterised by an influx of people – from elsewhere in Devon and further afield (a feature of local life for 150 years now!) – and, over time, an urban landscape (and associated culture) of pubs, churches, terraced houses, trams and picture houses. Torquay might have been very different to the Middlesbrough of the time but, also increasingly so, quite unlike Ashburton or Okehampton. In Devon but not necessarily of rural Devon and, as you may imagine, fertile ground for the sport of football.

And how about rugby in Melbourne?

Come on you Rebels?

Looking at the Sharks website, they're talking about moving to a new development near the Willows. Does anybody know anything about this? Is it still going ahead?

Hopefully I can add a little to this thread on two counts.

Having grown up in Brixham in the 70's/80's I would confirm the town's strong affiliation with the rugby club. Whilst I was never particularly interested myself, a number of my mates were involved with the Colts or had fathers or brothers who were active club members. Many of the pubs in the town displayed their support for The Fishermen. As suggested elsewhere, I think one reason for this level of interest was the fact that there was only one rugby club in these Westcountry market or coastal towns but several amateur football teams. The rugby clubs often ran several senior teams as well as juniors at all age levels and even veterans teams thereby appealing to a broad cross section of the community - true family clubs, if you like.

As far as the modern game is concerned, I work in Exeter and can confirm the high regard that The Chiefs are held in by the business community. Within these circles sporting conversation is as likely to open with discussions about the rugby club as it is the Grecians. I have thoroughly enjoyed the occasional game at The Chiefs (but never when The Gulls are at home!) especially if hospitality is involved. I have also been to many other events at Sandy Park and it is a fantasic facility which any lower division football club should aspire to. Its location just off the M5 helps and I have been to conferences, informal and formal lunches and a wedding reception all of which have been well organised with excellent catering.

At the present time I don't think the Chiefs attendances are significantly affecting gates at St James Park because of the relative success that City are enjoying but I do agree that this may change if the rugby team sustain their Premiership status and City hit bad times. I am not sure how much 'floating' support their is in the surrounding towns who would chose between football or rugby on any particular Saturday but for some of the bigger games at Sandy Park my train from Dawlish has been packed with fans in Chiefs attire (often whole families) The considerable price increase this season does not seem to have adversely affected gates.

I should conclude by making it clear that the oval ball game only has limited appeal to me. I enjoy the occasional club game or international but can never quite get my head around the appeal of a ball game where it is considered advantageous to hit the ball out of play (except cricket of course where you actually score points for this!)