Jon
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Post by Jon on Jun 11, 2008 12:32:49 GMT
Loram couldn't be trusted and was fortunate to be playing for the club during an awful period Whilst I agree with a lot of what you say about Kevin Hill being an exemplary professional and Loram not, I think you are underselling Loram somewhat. You say he was at the club during an awful period, but was it not he – possibly more than anyone else – who pulled the club out of that period? As a seventeen year-old he was thrust into a desperately poor side, but showed incredible maturity and stood out enough to be snapped up by a top-flight club. His return on loan sparked the fight back that kept us in the League in 87. He was then very much a central figure in the great Cyril team that gave us so much pride and was so unlucky not to get promoted. He led the charge to Wembley the following year – his brilliant goals clinching wins at Bristol Rovers and at Wolves along the way. He was then a key figure in the team that did get promoted in 1991. Very few Gulls players can match all that for sheer achievement – hardly an “awful period”. Loram did achieve massively – cramming far more into eight seasons than others could cram into twenty. Of course, he started young and was effectively finished at 24. You can ask what he might have achieved if he hadn’t been like he was – but if he wasn’t who he was he might have achieved nothing at all. There are many parallels to George Best. They are both players who achieved massively, but only really had half a career. Both are / were nice easy going blokes who just enjoyed life and probably didn’t have any regrets or wonder (like fans do) about what might have been. Some might laugh at the comparison but it’s more on the lifestyle / achievement balance than skill levels, although it’s not too far-fetched to say that the gulf in class between Loram and an average fourth division player was similar to that between Best and an average first division player. Your post almost seems to say that Loram was a good player whose behaviour was tolerated due to low standards. I would say he was an exceptional player whose behaviour was tolerated because he was an essential part of a successful side. Cyril Knowles was certainly not a man to suffer fools, but he built a side around Loram much as Busby built a side around Best. |
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merse
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Post by merse on Jun 11, 2008 16:50:56 GMT
Loram couldn't be trusted and was fortunate to be playing for the club during an awful period .................... I think you are underselling Loram somewhat. You say he was at the club during an awful period, but was it not he – possibly more than anyone else – who pulled the club out of that period? As a seventeen year-old he was thrust into a desperately poor side, but showed incredible maturity and stood out enough to be snapped up by a top-flight club. His return on loan sparked the fight back that kept us in the League in 87. He was then very much a central figure in the great Cyril team that gave us so much pride and was so unlucky not to get promoted. He led the charge to Wembley the following year Your post almost seems to say that Loram was a good player whose behaviour was tolerated due to low standards.  You are absolutely correct in the points you make , but I feel; less correct in your reading of my opinion of Mark Loram. I will say here and now, the lad was a genius and perhaps I should have quantified my statement by adding that he took a very poor side by the scruff of the neck and indeed a very good side was subsequently built around him. But I maintain, the manager might well have been less indulgent had he had better players to play with him.......................and we would all have been the losers! Low standards under Cyril? No way, whatsoever! A funny guy Lors.................not a bad lad by any means, but somewhat hard to figure out. I once reffed him in the South Devon Youth League when he was playing for Bobby Baxter's youth team and eventually had to book him for something or other. Aware that he was indeed a near genius, I bent over backwards to avoid having to issue a second yellow and hence end his involvement in the game; and eventually spelled out just that very fact to him. I tossed him the ball for him to take a free kick and he promptly picked it up and drop kicked it out of the ground. Again I did my best to avoid sending him off by inviting him to go out into the road and retrieve the ball..............let's say he "impolitely declined" leaving me with no option. |
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jun 12, 2008 21:01:57 GMT
A funny guy Lors.................not a bad lad by any means, but somewhat hard to figure out. I once reffed him in the South Devon Youth League when he was playing for Bobby Baxter's youth team and eventually had to book him for something or other. Aware that he was indeed a near genius, I bent over backwards to avoid having to issue a second yellow and hence end his involvement in the game; and eventually spelled out just that very fact to him. I tossed him the ball for him to take a free kick and he promptly picked it up and drop kicked it out of the ground. Again I did my best to avoid sending him off by inviting him to go out into the road and retrieve the ball..............let's say he "impolitely declined" leaving me with no option. Nice story! Loram was a flawed genius - but we'd be lucky to see an unflawed genius at Plainmoor. By the way, I was talking to Jason Fowler at Hilly's bash - what a nice guy. Other than Loram, he would have to be one of the most skillful players I've seen at TUFC. What a shame his career was cut short by his physical frailties - but then again if he'd had a more robust constitution he would never have come to us in the first place. I talked to him about the game with Yeovil in the LDV Vans thingy when he was crippled, but heroically hobbled through extra time as we had used all our subs - only for the idiots behind me to keep shouting "run Fowler, you lazy b**tard". He reckoned that game was the final straw in wrecking his hip - and wishes he'd come off and left us with ten men (or nine once Bayo was sent off). I wonder if we might have stayed up in League 1 if Jason could have played a few more games before retiring. |
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midlandstufc
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Post by midlandstufc on Jun 12, 2008 22:55:55 GMT
I will put myself in the Hill fan club.
When first saw him thought that I'd make it professionally myself!
But , he has served the club like not many others. He (IMO) should have played more this (last) season and we would have had a more rounded team.
Surely no TUFC fan can have a go at him? I hope he stays. If you need a back-up when injury or tiredness strikes, who better to bring on???
As for Loram - yes, great footballer (and I admit it - superb TUFC servant) - but if I hadn't been held back in the nightclub that once - he'd be picking his teeth up with a broken arm.
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You are absolutely correct in the points you make , but I feel; less correct in your reading of my opinion of Mark Loram.