Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 14, 2008 12:00:23 GMT
A very good post Jimd and what you have said Is so very true. I don't think anyone would have believed we would see gates as low as 1500 under the new board and owners. It is not the fault of any fan, Its down to the club, to get fans back into the ground.
If they don't know how, I will be happy to point them in the right direction.
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Post by bhamgull on Sept 14, 2008 12:13:08 GMT
good points JimD, even with the poor form though i didnt see crowds dropping to the levels that they are.
even so i will be heading back from the bright dim lights of Birmingham to watch the game against Eastbourne.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Sept 14, 2008 12:22:25 GMT
And as for talking about our pathetic sub two thousand...maybe it wouldn't be such a pathetic sub two thousand if folk didn't move away from Devon in pursuit of the bright lights of London, but stayed and tried to make a difference Well said Jim. Merse reminds me a bit of those French generals who ran away as fast as their legs would carry them when they saw Hitler coming, and then spent the rest of the War in relative safety in London bemoaning their countrymen's lack of fighting spirit and resistance.
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 14, 2008 13:36:29 GMT
Sorry Merse but you are talking about one game. Do you honestly think that their crowd haven't turned on their team when things are going badly for them? You also say "the likes that will never be seen at Plainmoor"...well i have seen the crowd at plainmoor creating such an atmosphere, are you sure you haven't? And as for talking about our pathetic sub two thousand...maybe it wouldn't be such a pathetic sub two thousand if folk didn't move away from Devon in pursuit of the bright lights of London, but stayed and tried to make a difference It was no one off Jim, it was like that last season; as was the atmosphere at Aldershot and AFC Wimbledon. Yes we've had it before, Scarborough in the play off semi springs to mind as something exceptional; but my take on it is that more often than not it is usually the team that tends to lift the crowd at Plainmoor rather than vice versa. As for your comments about "moving away", they are just purely facetious; do you think I'd hang around working for sub standard wages when I could earn much more and live for considerably less elsewhere? London wasn't my first stop on leaving Devon, I came here nearly a quarter of a century ago and have lived more of my adult life here than anywhere else. "Bright lights" only attract tourists and only the naive believe there are any other than in the West End. To say otherwise is being as patronising as me stating you live in some rural idyll sucking straw and wearing a smock. London does offer a fantastic lifestyle full of many varied differing cultures that quite frankly seem to strike fear into some country folk (witness AtheringtonGull's risible comments on here last week about "another country" which could be construed as showing racist tendencies by another method) As for sticking around and increasing the "average gate", I and many other exiles pay many visits to Plainmoor and DO increase the average gate. Before I had two young children to put first, I was making fortnightly 500 mile round trips to watch (quite frankly) real dross at times, and some pretty good football at others. The kids have to come first, but they get plenty of live football to watch in the fresh air and sunshine ....................Fisher FC (as part of a 200 crowd the other week) and Arsenal Ladies' Islington Community U'15s this morning in front of one or two men and one or two dogs (off the pitch I might add!) at Market Road N1 - it all gets the kids in the very good habit of live football in preference to that rubbish on the telly,and they get to have a "kick around as well"
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jerry
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Post by jerry on Sept 14, 2008 16:43:30 GMT
Good to see some things don't change, Merse never misses an opportunity to tell all us simple country folk how stupid we are for not moving to London!
I suggest you check out the many surveys done in the last 10 years Merse. Every single one of them states that the southwest of England is the place most people in Britain would like to live! Whereas London comes a long way down the list!
Seems to me that those who move away for short term material gain are losing out in the long run as we enjoy a vastly superior way of life!
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 14, 2008 17:06:44 GMT
As for your comments about "moving away", they are just purely facetious; do you think I'd hang around working for sub standard wages when I could earn much more and live for considerably less elsewhere? London wasn't my first stop on leaving Devon, I came here nearly a quarter of a century ago and have lived more of my adult life here than anywhere else. "Bright lights" only attract tourists and only the naive believe there are any other than in the West End. To say otherwise is being as patronising as me stating you live in some rural idyll sucking straw and wearing a smock. London does offer a fantastic lifestyle full of many varied differing cultures that quite frankly seem to strike fear into some country folk So where in my post Jerry, did I state as YOU claim I did? Read the post again, c o n c e n t r a t e and assimilate it, that way you might make an intelligent and relevant response!
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jerry
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Post by jerry on Sept 14, 2008 18:54:46 GMT
As for your comments about "moving away", they are just purely facetious; do you think I'd hang around working for sub standard wages when I could earn much more and live for considerably less elsewhere? London wasn't my first stop on leaving Devon, I came here nearly a quarter of a century ago and have lived more of my adult life here than anywhere else. "Bright lights" only attract tourists and only the naive believe there are any other than in the West End. To say otherwise is being as patronising as me stating you live in some rural idyll sucking straw and wearing a smock. London does offer a fantastic lifestyle full of many varied differing cultures that quite frankly seem to strike fear into some country folk So where in my post Jerry, did I state as YOU claim I did? Read the post again, c o n c e n t r a t e and assimilate it, that way you might make an intelligent and relevant response! As usual Merse you imply certain things in your posts, then when this is commented on you reply with your stock answer of: "but I didn't actually say that though did I?" "do you think I'd hang around working for sub standard wages when I could earn much more and live for considerably less elsewhere?"It's obvious to everyone what you are saying there and just because you didn't implicitly state it doesn't change what we all know you meant!
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 14, 2008 19:16:08 GMT
It's obvious to everyone what you are saying there and just because you didn't implicitly state it doesn't change what we all know you meant! No Jerry, YOU stated I said something I clearly didn't. To claim I implied something, rather than you implying I meant something that ties in with YOUR interpretation is a different thing altogether. It's a well trodden path for readers to accuse posters of stating something they clearly haven't. The mechanism for proving a statement was made is there.....................it's called the quote button. So go on then, quote me!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 14, 2008 19:32:48 GMT
Merse I will agree partly with you that THIS post did not knock us down here, but as you know you do have a habit of trying to put Devon folk down mate. We have had many a run In over It and Like I have said before you should never forget and always be proud your were born In Devon.
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 14, 2008 19:46:19 GMT
....................you should never forget and always be proud your were born In Devon. I agree Dave, I never have forgotten and I am a proud Devonian!
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jerry
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Post by jerry on Sept 14, 2008 19:56:04 GMT
No Jerry, YOU stated I said something I clearly didn't. To claim I implied something, rather than you implying I meant something that ties in with YOUR interpretation is a different thing altogether. It's a well trodden path for readers to accuse posters of stating something they clearly haven't. The mechanism for proving a statement was made is there.....................it's called the quote button. So go on then, quote me! The aforementioned "stock answer"!
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 14, 2008 20:01:39 GMT
....................you should never forget and always be proud your were born In Devon. I agree Dave, I never have forgotten and I am a proud Devonian! Its time for me to arrange a party, I have something to celebrate, Merse has not only agreed with me, but I learn he is a proud Devonian. So I would now hope he no longer feels he has to try and belittle the good folk of Devon, who like I said before, are the real clever and sensible people, because they were not daft enough, to leave the best county in England.
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 14, 2008 20:05:05 GMT
The aforementioned "stock answer"! ...................to the aforementioned libel! Touche
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merse
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Post by merse on Sept 14, 2008 20:14:52 GMT
......................the good folk of Devon, who like I said before, are the real clever and sensible people, because they were not daft enough, to leave the best county in England. Well I live in the best city in the world. I have older children who are happy and content Devonians living in the county (indeed town) of their birth and younger ones who are Londoners equally happy to be living in their city of birth. All them love to visit the "other place" and return to their home at the end of such visits. Wherever my younger kids choose to settle in adult life, I wouldn't dream of calling them "daft".......................and within the culture of OUR family alone there is France, Congo, Rwanda, Belgium, and Portugal as well as England. You can't build fences around people.
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Post by andygulls on Sept 15, 2008 21:33:13 GMT
Merse Surely the fact that many of us have moved away from Torbay (and Newton Abbot) is one of the problems with the lack of crowds and passion. I first moved away to London and then returned more locally, but not back to "the Bay". A large number, like you, move away on a more permanent basis. Many people who move into the bay area have no connection with Torquay United and many will be unlikely to develop an attraction to or affinity for, what has historically been a pretty poor team and club. It would not be a stretch to say that the club may have been undeserving of support at times over the last 20 odd years. In addition many of us, like you, have other responsibilities and indeed pleasures to occupy us rather than a football club that has lost "Football League" status - and yes that is still a big thing for many whatever your well reasoned arguments might seek to assert. I cannot recall when you moved away, but even my rose tinted memories of Plainmoor in the seventies cannot mask attendances below 2000 and a virtually empty ground of a cold winters night witnessing, at times, some fairly insipid football (although the memory perhaps sometimes plays tricks regarding the quality of the play). The current malaise is nothing new. It has been a feature of the club for nearly as long as I have been attending Plainmoor. This weekend saw the publication of statistics indicating that many parts of Devon were the least affordable in which to live in this country. As you point out the salary rewards tend to be lower than those available elsewhere yet the costs are often higher. Personally it's a matter of choice. I happen to love living where I do now, in the country free of excessive noise and traffic. In a village community where people talk to each other in the roads and lanes. Wave at each other when driving past someone you recognise walking a dog. The price I pay is less disposable income, so I do not get to the number of away games I might prefer, less access to headline sport, shows and concerts. But for me the price is well worth paying. Many people, that have stood in the same area of the ground as I, have been gradually worn down over the years. The rare pleasures of success insufficient to make up for the successive decline. Last seasons ultimate failure and desolate disappointment the final straw. Weighing that up I cannot blame a single one of them for deciding not to attend any longer, particularly in the light of some pretty awful home performances. Our new board have made a great commitment, but to change the culture and attitude to TUFC will demand consistent effort over many years AND most importantly a measure of success. At the same time existing supporters need to be encouraged to continue to attend. I am afraid that some of your posts can be perceived as being overly critical of local supporters and given your connections and alignment with key parties may have an increased negative impact. It's not about implication it is about perception and anyone who has had the slightest responsibility for management or leadership will understand that how one is perceived can be very different from the way one imagines they ought to be perceived. In amongst all your bluster and wind ups are some very astute observations and some very well constructed reasoning and argument. It would be a great shame if you so annoyed some on relatively minor issues that they ignore or miss some of the pearls of your wisdom
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