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Post by forevertufc on Sept 8, 2008 21:42:30 GMT
this has been inspired by some things i have read on various forums ,our start to season has been less than expected and we are all frustrated and vent that in different ways,some me included think it is time to change the manager ,then i read a view that this would cost a lot of money not just in a pay off for bucks but also to employ a new manager,but then take into account another view i read that the gates are dropping like a stone ,two sub 2000 gates in a row when i would presume the club would have budgeted on around 2500 as an average home attendance,many blame buckle and his style of play for this,if the gates carry on at their current low levels this most have a huge impact ,what would would have the greater cost benefit to let bucks go or do nothing?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 8, 2008 21:53:12 GMT
We all base our views on what knowledge we may have, I have said that If gates remained low, then It would have to be a major concern for the club.
I have good reason to change my views for the time being, so to answer your question I will say this. I really now believe it is not in the clubs best interest to even consider getting rid of the manager, you are correct about the cost to remove and then replace a manager.
What if mistakes had been realised and steps were being taken to address those mistakes?If that was happening then I think we need to give more time to see the effects of those changes.If they were successful, the gates would soon rise and then there really would be no problem.
So lets not rush just yet, this may be the right time to really keep the faith.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Sept 8, 2008 21:59:33 GMT
We all base our views on what knowledge we may have, I have said that If gates remained low, then It would have to be a major concern for the club. I have good reason to change my views for the time being, so to answer your question I will say this. [glow=red,2,300]I really now believe it is not in the clubs best interest to even consider getting rid of the manager[/glow], you are correct about the cost to remove and then replace a manager. What if mistakes had been realised and steps were being taken to address those mistakes?If that was happening then I think we need to give more time to see the effects of those changes.If they were successful, the gates would soon rise and then there really would be no problem. So lets not rush just yet, this may be the right time to really keep the faith. That's quite some quote, Dave. I'm not suggesting you have led a "Buckle Out" campaign or the like, but it is something which you, and others, might have considered until, what seems, quite recently. |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 8, 2008 22:07:52 GMT
Rob, one thing I have always said Is I want what is best for the club I support, I have heard a few things that have made me stop and reconsider my view points. Based on what I heard, I now think, time should be given, I'm not talking years here ;D ;D sometime acting in haste is often later regretted.
Thats whats good about life, when you can see things from a different angle, you can get a different view point.
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Post by jond on Sept 8, 2008 22:13:33 GMT
Very cryptic Dave;
are we talking about
- finance
- discipline
- compassionate
reasons involved in today's events?
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 8, 2008 22:21:41 GMT
Very cryptic Dave; are we talking about - finance - discipline - compassionate reasons involved in today's events? Cryptic, who me? maybe I have a good reason why I need to be  All I'm saying is I do believe there is a good reason not to give up hope, things won't happen over night, that is for sure, I just now feel that we need to give some time and It might just be worth it. |
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Post by jimd on Sept 8, 2008 22:25:37 GMT
All this "I'm in the know but I cant say anything" business is doing my head in. Its dot net all over again.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 8, 2008 22:30:28 GMT
All this "I'm in the know but I cant say anything" business is doing my head in. Its dot net all over again. Jim, you must trust old Dave, some like to think they are in the know, while some really are, If I could kiss and tell I would, trust me. I have only said what I have so far, because I hope some may stop and ask themselves, is there anything in what I say and should we just wait and see like Dave Says. |
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Post by crispygull on Sept 8, 2008 22:46:35 GMT
We all base our views on what knowledge we may have, I have said that If gates remained low, then It would have to be a major concern for the club. I have good reason to change my views for the time being, so to answer your question I will say this. I really now believe it is not in the clubs best interest to even consider getting rid of the manager, you are correct about the cost to remove and then replace a manager. What if mistakes had been realised and steps were being taken to address those mistakes? If that was happening then I think we need to give more time to see the effects of those changes.If they were successful, the gates would soon rise and then there really would be no problem. So lets not rush just yet, this may be the right time to really keep the faith. Well that is a very good starting point as far as I am concerned. There is a perception that Buckle is a stubborn individual and that is perhaps not surprising given his character. I dont think anyone would disagree that he is a determined, passionate and extremely hard working individual - but like all of us, we make mistakes from time to time and its important that when we do, we learn from them. I hope that Bucks realises that he has made mistakes with some of his recruitment this summer and perhaps making Dsane and Brough available is the first signal of changes being made. Likewise I have been an advocate (as I know Dave has) of Colin Lee being more involved on the playing side - it has always seemed daft to me that he isnt, given his experience. If I could have one wish now, it would be that if they (Buckle and Lee) had any issues or differences that they could see the importance of working through those, for the sake of ALL parties concerned and for the benefit of TUFC in particular. |
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jack
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Post by jack on Sept 9, 2008 9:00:09 GMT
Dave - your message is extremely cryptic (and basically flies in the face of all reason)
I have nothing at all against Paul Buckle but really anybody suggesting that he should remain in charge after the debacle of this season, should,well to put it mildly have there sanity challenged.
The only reason I could possibly think of is that to pay off the manager would ruin the club finacially.
But if that is the reason we will not survive on the gates which we are getting currently and will continue to plummet as the manager seems incapable of turning things around.
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Post by weathergull on Sept 9, 2008 12:29:58 GMT
There is of course another option.
We seemingly can't get rid of Buckle because of the financial restraints. What we could do - and probably HAVE to do - is this!
We don't need to look for a new manager, as we already have one at the club - Colin Lee!
He has to now step out of the shadows - pushing Buckle aside as he does so - and take the reigns!
The club will then double it's gates without having spent a penny more and results wiil put us top of the table. That's because I believe the team we have at the moment - with the right manager in charge - is capable of putting us there!
Then after a short period of time Buckle will realise his position is untenable and do the right thing and fall on his own sword, ahem, leave!
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midlandstufc
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Post by midlandstufc on Sept 9, 2008 12:53:23 GMT
Why would Colin Lee want to do that?
He's been good to the club but wouldn't want to put his head on the chopping block and his family through the abuse.
I've said it before, kneejerk reactions do not always help teams. Yes, the decline in performances started last season and Paul Buckle really needs to learn from mistakes and ACT upon them but to throw the dice on change in the club - it is just too soon, in my opinion.
Come on then, shoot me down boys, but remember - Absit Invidia (please).
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Mark L
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Post by Mark L on Sept 9, 2008 12:58:49 GMT
I'm not sure that Colin really wants to be a manager nor put out an image of Torquay United being a club who interfere with their manager's day-to-day decisions. I've no doubt Mr Lee's advice is available to Paul whenever he should ask for it. Maybe it already happens. I couldn't honestly tell you and a bit of enlightenment would be most welcome. I wouldn't expect to be told by the club in a formal statement, nor would I expect the club to pull a stunt like undermining the manager completely in order to push him out of the club.
To answer the original topic, giving Bucks the boot is a bit too cut-throat and mindless for me at the moment both financially and for the sake of the league position. I would allow him and his team to solve the issues on the field with the players he brought to the club (and a few loan additions?). I would imagine we would see cut-backs if the attendance issue carries on up to the Christmas period.
One hopes Paul would leave of his own accord if he felt he couldn't deal with the pressure of it all. I have faith he will pull through but I am an optimist by nature...
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Sept 9, 2008 21:25:46 GMT
Dave - your message is extremely cryptic (and basically flies in the face of all reason) I have nothing at all against Paul Buckle but really anybody suggesting that he should remain in charge after the debacle of this season, should,well to put it mildly have there sanity challenged. The only reason I could possibly think of is that to pay off the manager would ruin the club finacially. But if that is the reason we will not survive on the gates which we are getting currently and will continue to plummet as the manager seems incapable of turning things around. Jack, I do wonder how sane I am, at times myself, but I can understand where you are coming from.At this time Buckle is going nowhere, that is a fact, I believe some changes will be hopefully made to the squad. So what do we do then, just give up on the whole lot of it, I know I can't do that, so I will wait to see If the changes happen and what effect they will have. Time is still on the teams side, no one can paint over our start to the season as If Its been OK, we know it has been very poor, so what is wrong with just giving some more time, things do turn around sometimes . |
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Post by stuartB on Sept 9, 2008 21:29:55 GMT
Dave - your message is extremely cryptic (and basically flies in the face of all reason) I have nothing at all against Paul Buckle but really anybody suggesting that he should remain in charge after the debacle of this season, should,well to put it mildly have there sanity challenged. The only reason I could possibly think of is that to pay off the manager would ruin the club finacially. But if that is the reason we will not survive on the gates which we are getting currently and will continue to plummet as the manager seems incapable of turning things around. Jack, I do wonder how sane I am, at times myself, but I can understand where you are coming from.At this time Buckle is going nowhere, that is a fact, I believe some changes will be hopefully made to the squad. So what do we do then, just give up on the whole lot of it, I know I can't do that, so I will wait to see If the changes happen and what effect they will have. Time is still on the teams side, no one can paint over our start to the season as If Its been OK, we know it has been very poor, so what is wrong with just giving some more time, things do turn around sometimes . People need a reality check as we are still only 9 points behind the leaders after a crap start. Remember Excretia were 14 points behind us for most of the season and still got promoted which is the key goal for the season |
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