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Post by capitalgull on Jun 4, 2010 13:51:55 GMT
Can't say I had ever heard of him, until he was mentioned as a friend of Paul Buckle's who was helping out at Plainmoor. Now according to the website he has been appointed on a three(!!) year deal to oversee, with Shaun North and Kenny Veysey, the returning reserve team as well as the youth system. What now for Matt Williams and the other youth coaches? www.torquayunited.com/page/News/0,,10445~2064659,00.html
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jun 4, 2010 23:08:37 GMT
I can't say its anyone I have ever heard of as well, but reading about him he seems to be a perfect choice and his appointment show how serious the club are about making the youth set up not only work well, but also giving it the best opportunely to find those young players who may one day be the stars of tomorrow.
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merse
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Post by merse on Jun 5, 2010 5:48:21 GMT
Geoff Harrop rings a bell with me, but I can't think why ~ must be through a youth connection somewhere and if it is, Stevenage seems to come to mind. Anyway, what is important is that we're appointing someone to effectively replace Stuart Henderson who left for that management job in Sweden so soon after joining us. The youth system will only benefit the club and become cost effective if it produces players of a standard to repilicate the Wayne Thomas's, "Brunos" and Garry Monks of this world rather than players who will be no more than Western League fodder for Bideford and Barnstaple. The establishment of the reserve team platform is another essential so there is a conduit whereby youth graduates can gain a foothold in the professional game as it is always said that when a scholar turns pro' "the hard work starts here, THIS is step one of the REAL ladder" ~ and how true that is! I'm not convinced either that restricting the recruiting area too close to the club will produce the desired level of trainee for the youth system, so reliance too on the Paignton Community College supply line has yet to be proven and the FACT that the graduates so far have only been offered six month contracts is significant. It's one thing to offer these contracts to keep "everyone sweet" but the real proof will be if those players then go on to prove themselves as established pro's fit for purpose and of a standard to become effective members of the First Team Squad...............it's a big, big step in an unforgiving environment full of big bad opponents who are not going to stand off you and allow you to showcase your talent. You have to fight for the right to earn your place. You're going to come up against the likes of Guy Branston and need to show that you can come out on top to survive. You will be lucky to get the length of time that Elliot Benyon has been afforded, mainly because for the first two years of his career with us we were playing at a level below the one we are in now ~ would he have survived three seasons had we been in League 2 for all of those? I doubt it. We now have a nucleus of young pro's who earned their stripes at other higher status clubs................... LRT, O'Kane, Kee; to name but three and having "dropped down" to our level they should be capable of stepping up to the League 2nd then hopefully the League 1 plate; and THOSE are the standards we will need to seek to produce two or three years down the line.
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Post by forevertufc on Jun 5, 2010 7:39:00 GMT
Geoff Harrop rings a bell with me, but I can't think why ~ must be through a youth connection somewhere and if it is, Stevenage seems to come to mind. Anyway, what is important is that we're appointing someone to effectively replace Stuart Henderson who left for that management job in Sweden so soon after joining us. The youth system will only benefit the club and become cost effective if it produces players of a standard to repilicate the Wayne Thomas's, "Brunos" and Garry Monks of this world rather than players who will be no more than Western League fodder for Bideford and Barnstaple. The establishment of the reserve team platform is another essential so there is a conduit whereby youth graduates can gain a foothold in the professional game as it is always said that when a scholar turns pro' "the hard work starts here, THIS is step one of the REAL ladder" ~ and how true that is! I'm not convinced either that restricting the recruiting area too close to the club will produce the desired level of trainee for the youth system, so reliance too on the Paignton Community College supply line has yet to be proven and the FACT that the graduates so far have only been offered six month contracts is significant. It's one thing to offer these contracts to keep "everyone sweet" but the real proof will be if those players then go on to prove themselves as established pro's fit for purpose and of a standard to become effective members of the First Team Squad...............it's a big, big step in an unforgiving environment full of big bad opponents who are not going to stand off you and allow you to showcase your talent. You have to fight for the right to earn your place. You're going to come up against the likes of Guy Branston and need to show that you can come out on top to survive. You will be lucky to get the length of time that Elliot Benyon has been afforded, mainly because for the first two years of his career with us we were playing at a level below the one we are in now ~ would he have survived three seasons had we been in League 2 for all of those? I doubt it. We now have a nucleus of young pro's who earned their stripes at other higher status clubs................... LRT, O'Kane, Kee; to name but three and having "dropped down" to our level they should be capable of stepping up to the League 2nd then hopefully the League 1 plate; and THOSE are the standards we will need to seek to produce two or three years down the line. not sure where you have got this from,i spoke to stuart henderson last sunday night,and he was still very much part of the youth set up,not sure anything has changed this week,however will be seeing stuart on monday night so will soon find out stuart has also taking personal command of the development squad now running at ashburton,which flopped in dawlish. there is another development centre in plymouth,and plans to open more,the point i was making elsewhere is our youth system is big and expanding all the time,so there is a need for more staff to oversee it.
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Jon
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Post by Jon on Jun 5, 2010 8:08:55 GMT
Anyway, what is important is that we're appointing someone to effectively replace Stuart Henderson who left for that management job in Sweden so soon after joining us. not sure where you have got this from,i spoke to stuart henderson last sunday night,and he was still very much part of the youth set up,not sure anything has changed this week,however will be seeing stuart on monday night so will soon find out I guess that Merse meant Gibson - not Henderson.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2010 8:35:47 GMT
there is another development centre in plymouth,and plans to open more,the point i was making elsewhere is our youth system is big and expanding all the time,so there is a need for more staff to oversee it. There's also the development centre at Truro College. Indeed this week's West Briton (Falmouth edition) has as its back page lead: "Penryn striker joins Torquay" It's a sixteen-year-old called Rob Wearne who has signed as a youth player: www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/sport/Penryn-striker-join-Torquay/article-2265031-detail/article.htmlIf he's scored twenty-eight goals for Penryn Reserves in the Cornwall Combination - technically the same level as the SDL Premier - that doesn't sound a bad effort for a player of that age.
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merse
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Post by merse on Jun 5, 2010 16:37:54 GMT
not sure where you have got this from,i spoke to stuart henderson last sunday night,and he was still very much part of the youth set up,not sure anything has changed this week,however will be seeing stuart on monday night so will soon find out I guess that Merse meant Gibson - not Henderson. You're right of course, I'm rapidly becoming a suitable husband for Lady Gaga!
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Post by forevertufc on Jun 6, 2010 16:25:02 GMT
my bad,i should have realised that it was Gibson not Henderson,that merse meant.
i have been a long standing critic of our youth system,and rightly so,firstly not having one,and as a youth coach working in the pioneer league seeing ,Plymouth/exeter scouts coming into what i would call tufc area's taking the best of the talent,which should have been going to tufc ,was frustrating to say the least.
then when the club rightly re-started the youth system,to say they were backward in coming forward,is an understatement,while Plymouth/exeter where still scouting ,the best tufc did was have open trails pretty much isolated to the torbay area,and send generic letters out to local club's asking for them to put up there better players for trials,as you can imagine most where tossed in the bin.
iam not going to pretend i know anything about Geoff harrop,however it is clear,he knows a thing or two about running and developing a proper youth system,from his achievements at Northampton.
the development centre's which i believe are directly tufc,rather than run by a private body for the club,will widen the search for players which will hopefully feed through to the centre of excellence which is currently poor in quality.
merse is right to say to keeping the search to close to the club ,is not the right way for the club to go,2 weeks ago i attended tufc development against swindon held at h.m.s Raleigh,due to low numbers at the local centre,players from the Plymouth centre were brought in to make up full squads for tufc.
the difference in the Plymouth lads was clear to see,sharper thought process,wanted the ball more,and higher controlled aggression.
not wishing to diss-respect the pioneer league there talented lads out there,and not forgetting mark Ellis/ed Palmer,also Dan gosling Plymouth-everton all former pioneer league juniors,and a team of volunteer tufc scouts will be out watching them next season.
all in all i think tufc are going the right way with the youth system,which from this could emerge as the best around the south west and rival many bigger clubs,so well done tufc.
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merse
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Post by merse on Jun 6, 2010 16:55:58 GMT
merse is right to say to keeping the search to close to the club ,is not the right way for the club to go,2 weeks ago i attended tufc development against swindon held at h.m.s Raleigh,due to low numbers at the local centre,players from the Plymouth centre were brought in to make up full squads for tufc. the difference in the Plymouth lads was clear to see,sharper thought process,wanted the ball more,and higher controlled aggression. I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, but kids from an urban environment and particularly an inner city background do tend to be more streetwise and competitive in my opinion.I'm sure Stefano would back me up in this when I say that when he and I were teenagers we certainly knew we were up against it when going down to Plymouth to play as opposed to going to somewhee nice and leafy and more pastoral. Our days in the South Western League which was predominantly filled with Cornish clubs in those days saw us regularly coming up against sides that brought in Plymouth lads as part time professionals, and he also would tell you that when he played in the Western League there was a strong Bristol element at most of the tougher clubs he had to play against. Whilst I wouldn't go so far as to say you're more likely to find an old dear snoozing in a deckchair than a future England international in Torquay, you will hopefully appreciate where I think the club are somewhat "up against it" Not that there should be stereotyping in the search for talent.................of course there are talented footballers to be found anywhere, it's just that they are more concentrated in certain areas than others. Players like Mark Loram, Dan Gosling and from an earlier time, Colin Lee himself and Robbie Herrera show that there is indeed Premier League class talent to be found, but if you look at most of the players Torquay United developed themselves in the times of John James you have to acknowledge that the nuclues of them came from the Black Country and Birmingham. You might have read me refer to that famous East London club Senrab FC from Stepney who have produced over thirty full international footballers from their ranks over the past fifty years and literally scores of full time professionals and you may have read how proud my son's club was to knock them out of the London Under 9 Cup back in the Autumn. I am currently in exploratory talks with certain people to see if we can realistically take OUR very good youth football club in Islington on to the next level after just four seasons in existence.............. F.A. Charter status. Four seasons that have seen a stream of youngsters go onto development oportunities at several of the London clubs as well as some of the better provincial ones with the result that we are now being approached by parents of kids who live outside our previous catchment area and even outside London, to take their sons into our club and give them the opportunity to play in the very competitive environment we compete in.
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Post by stefano on Jun 6, 2010 17:31:29 GMT
merse is right to say to keeping the search to close to the club ,is not the right way for the club to go,2 weeks ago i attended tufc development against swindon held at h.m.s Raleigh,due to low numbers at the local centre,players from the Plymouth centre were brought in to make up full squads for tufc. the difference in the Plymouth lads was clear to see,sharper thought process,wanted the ball more,and higher controlled aggression. I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, but kids from an urban environment and particularly an inner city background do tend to be more streetwise and competitive in my opinion.I'm sure Stefano would back me up in this when I say that when he and I were teenagers we certainly knew we were up against it when going down to Plymouth to play as opposed to going to somewhee nice and leafy and more pastoral. Our days in the South Western League which was predominantly filled with Cornish clubs in those days saw us regularly coming up against sides that brought in Plymouth lads as part time professionals, and he also would tell you that when he played in the Western League there was a strong Bristol element at most of the tougher clubs he had to play against. Welton Rovers away particularly springs to mind. A little mining community near Bristol with a team of very skilful but also very physical Bristolians, backed up by a surprisingly large and intimidating crowd very close to the pitch in their small ground. Not much away support either ... in fact none I suppose it was also the same when we played for Brixham United Merse, albeit in different seasons. Whilst the South Devon League has always been a good league with a number of good players and good teams, I think the overall strength of the Plymouth & District League was greater due to the large urban catchment area of Plymouth. In the South Western League you could be playing as far away as Penzance, Helston, or Falmouth, and still find the teams made up of all Plymothians. Still it's pleasing to see that our club are putting serious thought into the youth programme now and hopefully we will capture our talented Torbay and South Devon youngsters at the right age whilst also not ignoring the wider area in our search for young talent. I think I have mentioned to you before Merse probably by PM that a friend of mine here in Ivybridge is an official Torquay scout, and he is normally expected to go to games in Plymouth and East Cornwall. Nice to see a couple of the youth team get pro contracts as well. Things do seem to be moving in the right direction, albeit limited by resources which is inevitable for a club of our size located in a football outpost. Small club or not they have given me great pleasure over very many years and the good memories are enough to ignore the frequent heartache that is a factor of supporting The Gulls! ;D
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Post by forevertufc on Jun 7, 2010 11:53:13 GMT
merse is right to say to keeping the search to close to the club ,is not the right way for the club to go,2 weeks ago i attended tufc development against swindon held at h.m.s Raleigh,due to low numbers at the local centre,players from the Plymouth centre were brought in to make up full squads for tufc. the difference in the Plymouth lads was clear to see,sharper thought process,wanted the ball more,and higher controlled aggression. I don't want this to be taken the wrong way, but kids from an urban environment and particularly an inner city background do tend to be more streetwise and competitive in my opinion.I'm sure Stefano would back me up in this when I say that when he and I were teenagers we certainly knew we were up against it when going down to Plymouth to play as opposed to going to somewhee nice and leafy and more pastoral. Our days in the South Western League which was predominantly filled with Cornish clubs in those days saw us regularly coming up against sides that brought in Plymouth lads as part time professionals, and he also would tell you that when he played in the Western League there was a strong Bristol element at most of the tougher clubs he had to play against. Whilst I wouldn't go so far as to say you're more likely to find an old dear snoozing in a deckchair than a future England international in Torquay, you will hopefully appreciate where I think the club are somewhat "up against it" Not that there should be stereotyping in the search for talent.................of course there are talented footballers to be found anywhere, it's just that they are more concentrated in certain areas than others. Players like Mark Loram, Dan Gosling and from an earlier time, Colin Lee himself and Robbie Herrera show that there is indeed Premier League class talent to be found, but if you look at most of the players Torquay United developed themselves in the times of John James you have to acknowledge that the nuclues of them came from the Black Country and Birmingham. You might have read me refer to that famous East London club Senrab FC from Stepney who have produced over thirty full international footballers from their ranks over the past fifty years and literally scores of full time professionals and you may have read how proud my son's club was to knock them out of the London Under 9 Cup back in the Autumn. I am currently in exploratory talks with certain people to see if we can realistically take OUR very good youth football club in Islington on to the next level after just four seasons in existence.............. F.A. Charter status. Four seasons that have seen a stream of youngsters go onto development oportunities at several of the London clubs as well as some of the better provincial ones with the result that we are now being approached by parents of kids who live outside our previous catchment area and even outside London, to take their sons into our club and give them the opportunity to play in the very competitive environment we compete in. if you look at it in terms of local talent torbay/newton abbot,then yes the club is up against it,however there is talent around these area's,but the problem is they tend to be all at the same clubs,if you look at the poineer league records,which are kept from under11 upwards,its the same1-2 clubs in each age group that tend to dominate,making the poineer league not the most competative junior league around,exeter/plymouth league's tend be stronger. thats why i think the club is going down the right road streching its development programme across the south west,heard talk a while back of a development programme in ireland aswell,however not sure if that will happen. i have already talked about the plymouth lads as far as i know they are part of tufc development,and could provide 1-2 players in the future,and it looks like there is another player coming through the cornish ranks aswell,which all bodes well for tufc. my own son is a (goalkeeper )newton 66 under junoir,will be under 13 next season aswell as tufc development squad goalkeeper. his team were last seaons under 12 champions and beaten cup finalist's,as a team they have played in the last 2 r+t national tours evets held over the last 2 bank holidays in torbay. they played against variuos teams from london,oxford,midlands wales,aswell as local,they came 2nd in the group in the first event,and 3rd in the second,which does show that the better local lads can compete which the best from around the country. in his team they have 3 plymouth and 4 tufc development lads ,which also proves that system,which some coach's dont agree with,can and does work. as a coach i have worked for 2 charter standard clubs,whist i do not have full knowledge on it,i do know it requires all coachs to be atleast level 1,first aid,and child protection,C.R.B up to date,and a ongoing deveolpment plan for the club,it also requires going forward,coachs to attend refresher courses,and f.a sanctioned training days,of which i had to do all the above
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merse
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Post by merse on Jun 8, 2010 19:19:49 GMT
One significant factor in the appointment of Geoff Harrop could lay in the Football League clubs agreeing to adopt the "Home Grown Rule" from this season in that squads will be capped to a maximum of 25 players over the age of 21 of which 10 will have to be "home grown".To the unitiated that means players who have been registered in domestic football for three seasons before attaining the age of 21. Now as I read it, however small that squad the "10" factor remains the same; so that the "10" become an even bigger percentage of the squad, the smaller the squad is. Therefore, to be truly effective in forcing clubs to develope their own talent the rule would surely need to insist that the three season qualifying period meant that they were registered with the club with whom they are going to play; but to be perfectly honest that bit seems to be missing from the regulation. The demise of the English National Team as a world force has largely been brought about (in my opinion) by the FACT that England has the world's highest percentage of "ex pats" in it's Premier League with an appalling 59% coming under that category and Liverpool really take the biscuit with a pathetic 90% of their squad being unavailabnle for selection by the national sides of this country. Even Arsenal, so long criticised for denying English talent the chance to blossom at the expense of extensive recruiting from abroad included 8 English players in the starting eleven that defeated Liverpool in the Final of the FA Youth Cup at the end of season 2008~09......................I watched the first leg of that final myself and was staggered in the gulf in class between the Arsenal squad and the Liverpool one. Liverpool should have been ashamed of themselves for turning out such a a technically inferior side judging on that peformance ~ and they, after all; had reached the final! When you see the extent to which how many members of that Arsenal Youth Squad spent last season playing in both the Premier League and the Football League as loanees from The Emirates, then you realise just how much the Gunners have turned around their policy of the early "Wenger Years" when the club's name was a byword for denying English talent it's opportunity in deference to youngsters recruited from all around the world. But here's the fly in the ointment: the rule states that a "Home Grown" player can be of any nationality or age as long as he has been registered with any club affiliated to the Football Association, or the Football Association of Wales for a period (continuous or not) of three complete seasons or 36 months before his 21st birthday. or the end of the season in which he becomes 21.......................so they can still bring in the foreigners as long as they have them here for three seasons before they reach the age of 21. Doesn't that sound like a dog chasing it's tail?
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Post by lambethgull on Jun 8, 2010 19:28:57 GMT
But here's the fly in the ointment: the rule states that a "Home Grown" player can be of any nationality or age as long as he has been registered with any club affiliated to the Football Association, or the Football Association of Wales for a period (continuous or not) of three complete seasons or 36 months before his 21st birthday. or the end of the season in which he becomes 21.......................so they can still bring in the foreigners as long as they have them here for three seasons before they reach the age of 21. Doesn't that sound like a dog chasing it's tail?Yep, but is it not an attempt to avoid falling foul of EU law?
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