Post by Dave on Nov 27, 2009 19:25:07 GMT
It’s that time of the week again when I look back at our last week on the forum together and I have to say, I have been very pleased with how things have been on here. A welcome change to the nonsense that went on the week before and so pleasing the forum has just got back to doing what it does best.
I’m always pleased when newer members make their first posts and we have seen a few more joining in and sharing their views this week and I hope many more who are just reading for now, will see its just fine to post on the forum and will be thinking about changing from a reader to a poster. I have said it before, but sometimes we need to give something back to the forum and the best way is making a contribution on it, the more that do, the forum will be so much more richer and have a wider range of view points
The news that Richard Bourne the chairman of Colchester Hospital University NHS Foundation Trust, being removed from his post today and the debate about it on the J.vine show today, had me looking back to past times.
Stewart had posted that he felt the teams of the 50’s etc at Plainmoor, were far better than the teams we now watch and that got a few responses from some of our younger members. We also have a thread running that I started “Attitude Of Today’s Police” and it’s clear to see reading the whole of that thread that many feel our police of yesterday, were far better than the ones we have today.
Stewart did watch those games back then and is in my view, in a good position to judge if the team was better back then, than it is now, but then we know so much has changed in the game etc.
I can remember so well how the police were when I was young and therefore feel I’m now in a good position to make a comparison with the police of today and also just what our hospitals were like back then compared with today.
I would expect Merse has the same memories as myself when he was young, when he ever had to go to Newton Abbot hospital to visit a family member. The floors were gleaning and the place just stunk of cleanliness, it really hit you and you just felt it was a super clean place and very sterile.
Mind you those were the days of the good old matron, who made sure the standards were so high, but now the hospitals are just full of managers and very little of the budget, gets to the ground level where it is really needed.
It can never be right when we should be going forward, that you run such a high risk of getting an infection in a hospital, but having had to spend so much time in them supporting Carol, I do feel they no longer have that clean and sterile feeling to them.
When Carol has been having chemo treatment, I have always been very worried about her being in there, those having chemo find their immune system is shot to pieces and they run a very high risk of dieing from an infection, more than they do from the treatment.
There are many things in my view that really were better in the past and maybe its time for the powers that be, to take a look back for themselves and try and get many of today’s standards, up to how they once were.
This weeks winner is a newer member and has knocked the forum back with some really wonderful posts, they have all been a joy to read and I hope now he has started to post, he forgets how to stop
This week’s winner is stefano very well done and fully deserved
One of stefano's post made this week.
Several of todays newspapers reported that the police have been 'falsely arresting' people as correctly reported by aussie, in order to build up the DNA database. This is probably a bit misleading, as media reports often are, as the real situation I suspect is that the arrests were perfectly legitimite in the first place but that when all the evidence was considered there was insufficient to charge (or charging was not in the public interest). It is not the actual arrest which is wrong (the reasons needed in law to arrest have always been less than the evidence needed to aquire a conviction) but the keeping of the DNA of innocent people on the database. As soon as a decision has been made not to charge then the sample should be destroyed. That though is not the law, the law made by our elected government.
I have no objections to having a DNA database and many serious crimes have been detected as a direct result of DNA evidence, but the database should not be built up by stealth in an underhand manner as seems to be the case. The government were keen to build up a database quickly and in order to achieve this changes were made to the law governing arrest so that far more arrests are now made for very trivial offences which would not previously have been the case. This was introduced by the government and it is the government who make all of the laws which the police apply. This is most certainly not a political statement as it really makes no difference who the government of the day is.
The police have probably seen more changes in the last 30 years than in the previous 100 years. During that time we have had 14 years of conservative governance followed by 14 years of labour governance (I find it difficult to tell the difference these days!). The 12" wooden baton of the 1970's which most officers did not draw during their service and Pye radios that did not work have been replaced by an extendable metal casco, CS spray, tasar, and a digital radio system Several armed officers patrol the streets of Devon & Cornwall 24 hours a day. This has certainly resulted in a more militaristic appearance which in itself gives off an air of unapproachibility. Lack of face to face contact between police and public (of which the police are a part) leads to a lack of trust and understanding on both sides. If a police officer always gets verbal or physical abuse every time he deals with somebody than his initial stance is almost certainly to be more aggressive from the outset, resulting inevitably in more aggression from the person he is dealing with. Not right, but it can be understood how the situation can develop. How did it develop? More government help I am afraid!
Efficiency savings demanded by government led to an increase in civilianisation and the setting up of specialist squads, resulting in a quicker extinction of the bobby on the beat than the polar bears are experiencing on their melting icecaps. The setting up of the CPS to usurp a previously important role of the police undermined morale and confidence in the criminal justice system. Government set targets and ticking the right boxes to pass inspections and obtain central funding became a priority to the detriment of other activities.
What cannot be ignored in all this though is that there are still many very dedicated police officers who really do care about providing the best possible service to the community they are part of, and are willing to go to the ultimate extreme of risking their lives. Sadly we have seen an example only this week during the floods when a brave officer lost his life whilst acting to protect the public.
Even bravery though is not as clearcut as it used to be, again thanks to our democratically elected government. Initially the police were sensibly exempt from Health & Safety legislation but then it was decided by government that the police should be included. To what end? For the police it has only caused confusion and has led to hesitation when previously a bobby would have acted on instinct. The only real end were the financial benefits to the legal profession (the profession that always dominates the government of the day) and the same would have to be said about the Human Rights Act, initiated to prevent genocide it is now used for all sorts of nonsence.
Picking up on a previous post from aussie I suspect, although I do not know, that the perceived routine handcuffing of people who have been arrested is as a result of a Risk Assessment carried out under Health & Safety legislation, whereas previously the individual arresting officer decided on the individual circumstances. In the 1970's many officers did not even carry handcuffs.
Please don't think I am having a pop at you aussie just because I have mentioned you twice, it just happens that I was focussing on points you previously raised on this thread and you will see that I have in fact not totally disagreed with you.
When considering the theme of this thread 'attitute of today's police' as opposed I suppose to 'the police of old' (Was Dixon a myth would be another good topic but off thread for today!)
I think we have to look at everything else and realise it has all changed. Very few teachers from my schooldays would survive the first term without being suspended for perceived assaults on pupils. Never did me any harm, instilled discipline and one or two useful educational bits I could use along the way. As a kid the doctor used to come to my house, now we have to book an illness into the surgery well in advance and we will never see the same doctor on consecutive visits. Hospitals used to be a place to go to recover from a serious illness or accident but now with MRSA it is probably safer to stay at home. Social Services, a caring profession, have gone the way of the police and are over politicised.
Other things have changed too. In my first six seasons of supporting Torquay we finished 6th, 10th, 3rd, 7th, 4th, and 6th. I can remember as a kid at that time thinking "I'm glad I wasn't born in Hartlepool". Sadly I suspect that kids in Hartlepool today are thinking exactly the same about Torquay!!
Ok better wind up this rambling, I just can't get the hang of this social networking lark! Amongst those first 6 seasons was our 1966 promotion, the LAST time we got promoted and didn't go straight back down again the next season. There is still a risk it could happen again, although I don't think so and after a dodgy start I am ultra optimistic and expecting a final placing of 12th.
I’m always pleased when newer members make their first posts and we have seen a few more joining in and sharing their views this week and I hope many more who are just reading for now, will see its just fine to post on the forum and will be thinking about changing from a reader to a poster. I have said it before, but sometimes we need to give something back to the forum and the best way is making a contribution on it, the more that do, the forum will be so much more richer and have a wider range of view points
The news that Richard Bourne the chairman of Colchester Hospital University NHS Foundation Trust, being removed from his post today and the debate about it on the J.vine show today, had me looking back to past times.
Stewart had posted that he felt the teams of the 50’s etc at Plainmoor, were far better than the teams we now watch and that got a few responses from some of our younger members. We also have a thread running that I started “Attitude Of Today’s Police” and it’s clear to see reading the whole of that thread that many feel our police of yesterday, were far better than the ones we have today.
Stewart did watch those games back then and is in my view, in a good position to judge if the team was better back then, than it is now, but then we know so much has changed in the game etc.
I can remember so well how the police were when I was young and therefore feel I’m now in a good position to make a comparison with the police of today and also just what our hospitals were like back then compared with today.
I would expect Merse has the same memories as myself when he was young, when he ever had to go to Newton Abbot hospital to visit a family member. The floors were gleaning and the place just stunk of cleanliness, it really hit you and you just felt it was a super clean place and very sterile.
Mind you those were the days of the good old matron, who made sure the standards were so high, but now the hospitals are just full of managers and very little of the budget, gets to the ground level where it is really needed.
It can never be right when we should be going forward, that you run such a high risk of getting an infection in a hospital, but having had to spend so much time in them supporting Carol, I do feel they no longer have that clean and sterile feeling to them.
When Carol has been having chemo treatment, I have always been very worried about her being in there, those having chemo find their immune system is shot to pieces and they run a very high risk of dieing from an infection, more than they do from the treatment.
There are many things in my view that really were better in the past and maybe its time for the powers that be, to take a look back for themselves and try and get many of today’s standards, up to how they once were.
This weeks winner is a newer member and has knocked the forum back with some really wonderful posts, they have all been a joy to read and I hope now he has started to post, he forgets how to stop
This week’s winner is stefano very well done and fully deserved
One of stefano's post made this week.
Several of todays newspapers reported that the police have been 'falsely arresting' people as correctly reported by aussie, in order to build up the DNA database. This is probably a bit misleading, as media reports often are, as the real situation I suspect is that the arrests were perfectly legitimite in the first place but that when all the evidence was considered there was insufficient to charge (or charging was not in the public interest). It is not the actual arrest which is wrong (the reasons needed in law to arrest have always been less than the evidence needed to aquire a conviction) but the keeping of the DNA of innocent people on the database. As soon as a decision has been made not to charge then the sample should be destroyed. That though is not the law, the law made by our elected government.
I have no objections to having a DNA database and many serious crimes have been detected as a direct result of DNA evidence, but the database should not be built up by stealth in an underhand manner as seems to be the case. The government were keen to build up a database quickly and in order to achieve this changes were made to the law governing arrest so that far more arrests are now made for very trivial offences which would not previously have been the case. This was introduced by the government and it is the government who make all of the laws which the police apply. This is most certainly not a political statement as it really makes no difference who the government of the day is.
The police have probably seen more changes in the last 30 years than in the previous 100 years. During that time we have had 14 years of conservative governance followed by 14 years of labour governance (I find it difficult to tell the difference these days!). The 12" wooden baton of the 1970's which most officers did not draw during their service and Pye radios that did not work have been replaced by an extendable metal casco, CS spray, tasar, and a digital radio system Several armed officers patrol the streets of Devon & Cornwall 24 hours a day. This has certainly resulted in a more militaristic appearance which in itself gives off an air of unapproachibility. Lack of face to face contact between police and public (of which the police are a part) leads to a lack of trust and understanding on both sides. If a police officer always gets verbal or physical abuse every time he deals with somebody than his initial stance is almost certainly to be more aggressive from the outset, resulting inevitably in more aggression from the person he is dealing with. Not right, but it can be understood how the situation can develop. How did it develop? More government help I am afraid!
Efficiency savings demanded by government led to an increase in civilianisation and the setting up of specialist squads, resulting in a quicker extinction of the bobby on the beat than the polar bears are experiencing on their melting icecaps. The setting up of the CPS to usurp a previously important role of the police undermined morale and confidence in the criminal justice system. Government set targets and ticking the right boxes to pass inspections and obtain central funding became a priority to the detriment of other activities.
What cannot be ignored in all this though is that there are still many very dedicated police officers who really do care about providing the best possible service to the community they are part of, and are willing to go to the ultimate extreme of risking their lives. Sadly we have seen an example only this week during the floods when a brave officer lost his life whilst acting to protect the public.
Even bravery though is not as clearcut as it used to be, again thanks to our democratically elected government. Initially the police were sensibly exempt from Health & Safety legislation but then it was decided by government that the police should be included. To what end? For the police it has only caused confusion and has led to hesitation when previously a bobby would have acted on instinct. The only real end were the financial benefits to the legal profession (the profession that always dominates the government of the day) and the same would have to be said about the Human Rights Act, initiated to prevent genocide it is now used for all sorts of nonsence.
Picking up on a previous post from aussie I suspect, although I do not know, that the perceived routine handcuffing of people who have been arrested is as a result of a Risk Assessment carried out under Health & Safety legislation, whereas previously the individual arresting officer decided on the individual circumstances. In the 1970's many officers did not even carry handcuffs.
Please don't think I am having a pop at you aussie just because I have mentioned you twice, it just happens that I was focussing on points you previously raised on this thread and you will see that I have in fact not totally disagreed with you.
When considering the theme of this thread 'attitute of today's police' as opposed I suppose to 'the police of old' (Was Dixon a myth would be another good topic but off thread for today!)
I think we have to look at everything else and realise it has all changed. Very few teachers from my schooldays would survive the first term without being suspended for perceived assaults on pupils. Never did me any harm, instilled discipline and one or two useful educational bits I could use along the way. As a kid the doctor used to come to my house, now we have to book an illness into the surgery well in advance and we will never see the same doctor on consecutive visits. Hospitals used to be a place to go to recover from a serious illness or accident but now with MRSA it is probably safer to stay at home. Social Services, a caring profession, have gone the way of the police and are over politicised.
Other things have changed too. In my first six seasons of supporting Torquay we finished 6th, 10th, 3rd, 7th, 4th, and 6th. I can remember as a kid at that time thinking "I'm glad I wasn't born in Hartlepool". Sadly I suspect that kids in Hartlepool today are thinking exactly the same about Torquay!!
Ok better wind up this rambling, I just can't get the hang of this social networking lark! Amongst those first 6 seasons was our 1966 promotion, the LAST time we got promoted and didn't go straight back down again the next season. There is still a risk it could happen again, although I don't think so and after a dodgy start I am ultra optimistic and expecting a final placing of 12th.