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Post by buster on Oct 15, 2009 12:14:15 GMT
Could fans forums put pressure on clubs and the FA to seriously consider suggestions?
1. video technology - There has been a lot of talk on this subject but nothing ever appears to get done.
I ask myself why is that? Are the FA set in their ways? Is it cost? Do they perceive it as a sign of weakness on the part of matchday officials?
we have 4 officials so why not give the 4th one a laptop/monitor to review plays.
I hear FIFA saying it will slow the game down, in my opinion it could do with slowing down occasionally.
Big screens add something to rugby & cricket the same could be done for football, it would also rule out anger & frustration during the rest of the game.
i saw Barrow RL play in front of 2500 they had a big screen so if they can finance it I`m sure the top 4 divisions could.
I don`t see how the europa idea of an official behind each goal is progress its just tinkering and avoiding the better option.
red cards
Often feel these ruin a game and don`t fully reward the offended team. how about a restart on the centre spot with 10 seconds for a player from the offended team to try and score before a second whistle restarts the game from wherever the ball is. i think this may add an element of skill and the potential of immediate reward. clearly if the offence were in the penalty area a penalty would still be the result.
The player could be sin binned to allow time for cooling down.
I think the game is in need of freshening up if it is to attract some crowds back.
apologies if these ideas have been raised before & thrashed to death. But i`m fed up of talk and no action by the clubs and FA so can the forums nationwide get together and put pressure on?
buster
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Post by lambethgull on Oct 15, 2009 18:50:56 GMT
The problem with using fans forums for this is that there are as many views as there are fans.
I oppose technology for the simple reason that it would create a two-tier game. Whilst the top 4 divisions, and maybe the 5th and even 6th tiers of English football, could implement it, what about the rest? Those playing without the technology would be playing within different parameters to those with it.
You could say this is already the case with fitter refs, better pitches etc in the higher leagues, but the fact remains that whether it's a World Cup final or a Sunday League game or a match hosted on a dustbowl in Africa, everyone plays within the same parameters: 22 players, 1 ref, 2 linesman. Long may that continue.
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merse
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Post by merse on Oct 15, 2009 19:28:21 GMT
..........................the fact remains that whether it's a World Cup final or a Sunday League game or a match hosted on a dustbowl in Africa, everyone plays within the same parameters: 22 players, 1 ref, 2 linesman. Long may that continue.  I'm with you on this one except that I would remind you that in London, it is very rare to see even club linesmen at grass roots level..........................the ref's just get on and do their job without them. The never ending beauty of football is it's simplicity and I don't see why a few prima donnas should seek to change that in any way. What I love about football is that no matter where you watch it (be it the Emirates or the local park along the road) the game is the same, the laws of the game are the same and everyone can play with the same ideals, amitions and dreams. There's nothing worse than the prevaricating and constant re-running of video footage in rugby as the buffoons officiating take for ever to come to a decision....................boring, boring, boring! Give it right or wrong, live with it and move on is my motto. What a boring game WE would have if it was to lose the controversy over decisions ~ it's one of the game's great characteristics for God's sake! |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 15, 2009 20:56:01 GMT
I once started a thread on here all about the game using video technology at matches, but I was only looking at it from the point of view about justice being done in the game for clubs etc.
What I mean by that is I just felt it would be unfair on a club to drop out of the top flight say and suffer the big drop in money, all because a goal was given, that clearly was not when reviewed in a replay of the goal.
As that thread went on and received many good viewpoints, I felt that as Merse has posted tonight we would be in danger of making the game very boring and sure would reduce what we could talk about on a forum after a game.
Its also right to say the game needs to be the same at what ever level it is played at, I'm not sure the games merse talks about without linemen are legal as such. My understanding was all game played under the FA umbrella has to have a ref and two linemen.
At the lower levels the clubs provide the lineman and if a team only has 11 players and no one to run the line, then it must use one of the players and play with ten men, I'm sure Ant will correct me if I'm wrong.
Buster not sure your give the player 10 seconds to score a goal would work, I can't ever see that being made a part of the game.
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Post by buster on Oct 15, 2009 22:28:21 GMT
If football was in an ideal world then yes we wouldn`t need to explore new horizons.
but sadly the game is full of anger and pressure caused by incorrect decisions or participants perceiving decisions to be incorrect.
as for the game being officiated the same at all levels that just isn`t true.
How far down the pyramid does the fourth official go?
there may be referee assessors but do all leagues have a fourth official? and what about the mad idea of an official behind the goal for the Europa league?
The point I`m making here is how many people are being driven away because the product just isn`t entertaining? Hard to tell I appreciate as you`d have to unpack poor facilities and cost. But I feel the game should seriously explore such ideas.
It wouldn`t have to be done in an over the top way like american football with constant stop starting. The manager for example could have 2 challenges per game where he asks for the fourth official.
You only have to look at the falling crowds, clubs cannot rely on 30-60 year olds trudging along come rain or shine. We may like a good old fashioned game of football but that obviously isn`t enough for thousands in the bay and I suspect up & down the country.
As for the "shoot out" idea. I don`t see why that couldn`t work.
Ref blows the whistle for the offence as normal. Ball is placed on the centre spot and a players has a period of time to take on the keeper unchallenged by the other players. Restrictions could be imposed to prevent players standing say in the final third.
it may appear laughable to some, but that was how we brits reacted to the japs and their oily bikes when they first came on the scene and look what happened to our once great bike industry.
We are far too blinkered and self centred in our approach.
If you are happy with the way football is packaged and can see a flourishing future for it then fine. I however see the wider picture of disapearing fans and failing clubs.
buster
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Oct 15, 2009 22:39:29 GMT
Buster not sure myself how far you have to go down, before the forth official is not required, its good to have ideas and while as you say some may seem laughable, without people having ideas, nothing would ever move forward.
I think the problems only mostly effect lower league clubs and not the big boys like Man U who could fill the stadium many times over for each game.
The real challenge is how you make the match day experence at our level so good that young people would want to go and pay to watch the games. Maybe its just the fact that so much top football is now just the flick of a button on a remote control away and all the over the top rules in grounds that are having far more effect on gates than anyone really wants to admit.
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Post by lambethgull on Oct 16, 2009 0:37:27 GMT
as for the game being officiated the same at all levels that just isn`t true. How far down the pyramid does the fourth official go? there may be referee assessors but do all leagues have a fourth official? and what about the mad idea of an official behind the goal for the Europa league? The point I`m making here is how many people are being driven away because the product just isn`t entertaining? Hard to tell I appreciate as you`d have to unpack poor facilities and cost. But I feel the game should seriously explore such ideas. It wouldn`t have to be done in an over the top way like american football with constant stop starting. The manager for example could have 2 challenges per game where he asks for the fourth official. You only have to look at the falling crowds, clubs cannot rely on 30-60 year olds trudging along come rain or shine. We may like a good old fashioned game of football but that obviously isn`t enough for thousands in the bay and I suspect up & down the country. You can't compare a fourth official - or even the presence of an official behind the goal - with goaline technology or a fourth official with access to a TV monitor. The fact is, all levels of football could have a fourth official or official behind the goal if it was required, but not all levels of football would be able to invest in the technology. I would also take issue with your assertion that hordes of supporters are turning their backs on the game due to incorrect refereeing decisions. What exactly is your evidence for this? Crowds just aren't dropping as a whole either. In the Premiership for instance, where one could argue the stakes are highest as far as refereeing decisions are concerned, crowds have increased year-on-year (with the odd blip) since the League was formed: www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm |
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merse
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Post by merse on Oct 16, 2009 3:18:02 GMT
I'm not sure the games merse talks about without linemen are legal as such. My understanding was all game played under the FA umbrella has to have a ref and two linemen. It's true....................laws 5 ~ Referee and 6 ~ Assistant Referee relate to Referees AND linesmen (Assistants) even to Fourth and Fifth Officials but practicality and pragmatism has to take precedence over rigid appication; and remember that in the majority of football the game is played for the sole benefit of the players as there are no spectators! Dave, you frequently mention the unsavoury aspects of "cheating" club linesmen in the South Devon League and it is for that very reason that much grass roots football ~ especially in the big cities, opts to do without them. I would say that although there were some really good ones when I reffed down there, in some games you might as well have given the flag to the opposing left backs as far as fair "decisions" went. Remember too, that the referee and the referee only who actually makes decisions, some of them based on advice from his linos and that he also has the power to dismiss unhelpful or unfair linos..................even if he is unable to replace them. There was an FA Cup Third Qualifying Round game that went ahead without an appointed Fourth Official only last Saturday and (you've guessed it) that was the only one to suffer an injurry that caused a match official to retire from the game which was only able to finish thanks to a volunteer lino "appearing" from the crowd. I well recall reffing a game at Beesands once and standing over the ball attempting to get the wall ten yards back before allowing a free kick to go ahead and some dimwit tried to take it quickly kicking me accross the Achilles Tendon and thus ending my participation in the game to the effect that the home club even had to drive me back to Newton Abbot as I was unable to even drive my own car. It didn't prevent some "prawn" demanding that I supervise the club lino who took over the whistle from me from a seat on the touchline.......................needless to say, I told him where to stick his seat! ;D |
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merse
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Post by merse on Oct 16, 2009 3:35:51 GMT
1: ....................but sadly the game is full of anger and pressure caused by incorrect decisions or participants perceiving decisions to be incorrect. 2: The point I`m making here is how many people are being driven away because the product just isn`t entertaining? 3: We may like a good old fashioned game of football but that obviously isn`t enough for thousands in the bay and I suspect up & down the country. Buster, that is your opinion, but as far as fact goes; I don't think so.................... 1: "Full of anger" ~ a bit of sporadic and isolated displeasure, but "full of anger", come on! 2: "Driven away because the product isn't entertaining" more likely that they cannot afford it mate. 3: "thousands in the Bay"........................if only there were thousands of potential fans in the Bay. If there are I don't believe that for one minute they are staying away because of the lack of video equipment at Plainmoor; and when was the last time a contentious "over the line argument" caused any form of prolongued angst in Torbay? I seem to recall there was one such incident in the recent Aldershot match and not one letter even made the "Barmy Comments" list in the HE! |
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