Historic Queries

This is a long-winded way of saying I don't have the answers to these questions but, nonetheless, it's a good way of thanking Darryl and Aussie for their kind words about the History Room. It’s certainly gone from strength-to-strength since Aussie brilliantly suggested we set it up as a separate section. And, Darryl, please don't apologise because we love to hear about enquiries such as these.

We’re fortunate the Forum has plenty of members who’ve a keen interest in the club’s history. And, happily, it looks like their numbers are growing. Some of us also have long memories and/or a pile of reference books (which, to use the jargon of an historian, we can call secondary sources). A major strength, however, is that Jon appears to have a mass of additional, often original material at his fingertips (which we can often label as primary sources). And, as we all appreciate, Jon knows how to use and present this material.

Having these primary sources can be a great advantage when it comes to answering queries like the ones Darryl has posted. But, of course, whilst we can have all of the books we can never have all of the primary sources so some questions go unanswered. Jon may easily prove otherwise – as he has done on several occasions – but a case in point might be James Blythe, the chap who may have appeared for Gloucester City and Torquay United.

When faced with that type of enquiry I’m usually pretty sure I’ll recognise the name of any player who has played a few first team games since the war (although I’ll admit my ability to do so is on the wane). With James Blythe the name rang no bells so I consulted the Centenary History and Barry Hugman’s book of league players since 1945. In neither is there a James Blythe. In Barry Hugman’s book there is Jim Blyth (the Coventry and Scotland goalkeeper) and a couple of players called Blythe who played for Hartlepool and Darlington.

The problem is that many players get reported – in programmes and newspapers - as being ex-Torquay, ex-Exeter or ex-whatever. This, it seems, can cover anything from 500 first team games to a single substitute appearance for an age group or youth side. There can be all sorts of reasons for this: the player embellishing the facts; the club “bigging” up a signing; a journalist adding spin; a simple misunderstanding. However, once it’s in print, it often sticks.

I suppose “on the books” is the key expression in James Blythe’s case as this would have, quite fairly, included the reserve and A team sides. It’ll be interesting if anything is discovered but, for players who haven’t appeared in the Football League, birthdates are usually tricky.

The Devon Bowl enquiry about Glenn Spencer should be easier if you’ve a programme and/or a press cutting (which I haven’t). As for myself, I can only confirm – from Mike Holgate’s Devon Derbies book and www.tufchistory.com – that we played against Exeter City in the Bowl at the Cat and Fiddle on 12 May 1987 (although Mike Holgate says Clyst St Mary). This is the game to which Jon has already referred elsewhere: arranged in haste; witnessed by few.

Two points about this. One, it was just a few days after the famous game against Crewe Alexandra (Paul Dobson scored in both mathes). Two, given the state of the club in those days, it must have been a constant struggle to field a Saturday reserve side in the SW Western League in 85/86 and 86/87. More broadly, it would be fascinating to explore who has played for us in the Devon Bowl over the years: triallists, ringers, physios....

Of the others, Frank Clarke could prove to be a Jon special from either side of WW1 and the director - C E Kirkby – could be tracked by someone who has an extensive programme collection (he’s there in that recently-posted Bournemouth programme from 1951 but he’s gone by the time Leeds visited in 1955).

Darryl,

This seems to be a good place to pose such questions. We won't be able to answer all, but we may solve a few.

When we can help, could I suggest that you direct the enquirer to this site rather than e-mailing answers?

It may be that the person asking the question can add further details which will be of interest to our members. Such sources can often add colour to history which otherwise would be lost forever.

I'm afraid I cannot help on the Blythe and Clarke queries. I would imagine that both were reserve team players, as Barton alludes to.

I would echo what Barton says about Mr Kirkby. It would be very interesting for his relative to join this site and browse through the various old programmes that Timbo and others have posted.

They all list the names of the directors and also give a really good "feel" for what the Football Club was up to at the time. Timbo and Sam have massive programme collections. If the relative could provide a date of death, they may be able to dig out a programme of the time which might pay tribute to Mr Kirkby.

I would also add my thanks to Mr Kirkby. The club was, of course, closed down from 1940 to 1945 and so the photo from July 1945 would be very much the start of a new era - with Mr Kirkby and his colleagues responsible for getting our club re-started.

Finally, Mr Spencer's letter is of so much interest to me that I have started a separate thread - Devon Bowl 1987.

Phipsy, I've moved your posting to this thread where it best belongs. Hope you don't mind and many thanks for it.



On this basis which year do you think Jim Blythe was born? c1944 if it was an U13 match in 1957? And, yes, the Webber Shield will do for starters for our list of schools competitions.

Likewise I'm re-posting Merse's comments about Gerry Howshall who was born on 27 October 1944 in Stoke-on-Trent and signed pro for WBA in April 1962, moving to Norwich in November 1967. He made 45 league appearances for the Albion and 40 for Norwich.



There's a Gerry Howshall thread at www.pinkun.com/cs_pinkun/cs/forums/1195638/ShowPost.aspx

Begs another question......professional footballers from South Devon who enjoyed reasonably significant Football League careers without playing for Torquay United?

I'm asking this as a brainstorm without a definitive list in mind. I'll start with Gary Smart, born Totnes 1964, 175 league games for Oxford United.

And speaking of local products, in this case one with TUFC connections, I see Mike Williamson was on the bench for Pompey yesterday.

I'll adjust that to playing competitive first team football for Torquay United....