Post by Jon on Aug 10, 2009 21:28:30 GMT
Mention of Jimmy Hargreaves being listed as a TUFC manager on Wiki made me ask the question – how exactly do you define who has and who hasn’t been a manager of a football club?
Comparing the Wiki list to the Rothmans lists highlights several differences and there are a few names that appear on both lists that possibly shouldn’t and a few names that are not on either list that probably should be.
PRE-LEAGUE MANAGERS
Both lists start from 1927. TUFC clearly had a manager from the time the professional club was formed in 1921. Add Crad Evans 1921-24 and Harry Raymond 1924-25, and extend Percy Mackrill’s reign back to 1925.
MANAGERS WHO NEVER ACTUALLY STARTED WORK
The obvious one here is Leroy’s second reign. He was announced as manager on May 17, 2007 and did the Press Conference but was due to start work on June 1 by which time the club had changed ownership and made other plans. If Leroy never actually started work, he shouldn’t really be listed, should he?
A second case is Albert Hoskins back in 1929. He accepted the job and was announced as manager in the press, but subsequently changed his mind and never took up the post. At least Rothmans lists him as just 1929 and correctly has Womack listed as 1929/32, but both Wiki and Soccerbase mistakenly claim that Hoskins was in situ throughout the 1929/30 season. Like Leroy, he never actually started work so to my mind he shouldn’t really be listed.
CARETAKER MANAGERS
There is no way I would count Jimmy Hargreaves as Wiki does. How many others would a one or two game caretaker stint open the doors to? Mick Buxton, Dickie Hancox and several others.
The two exceptions who had lengthy caretaker terms would be Frank O’Farrell in 1976/77 and Wes Saunders in 1991/92. I would include both of these as Wiki does, but Rothmans doesn’t. The one clear error in the Rothmans list is that it has Impey down as 1991/92. He definitely left well before the end of 1991.
CONSULTANTS
This particular Batesonism gave us Neil Warnock in 1993 and Colin Lee in 2001. I would say that you would have to include both as Wiki does but Rothmans doesn’t. Atkins also started off in that category but is in both lists anyway as he went on to accept the manager’s job permanently. I am pretty sure that the club expected Colin Lee’s role to go the same way in 2007, but he wasted no time in getting Curle in when Kubik was sacked so Lee would not be listed for a second stint.
SHORT STINTS
We’ve had quite a few managers who lasted less than a year – but obviously that doesn’t stop them being listed. I think John Sims holds the record.
Does anybody agree or disagree with any of the above? Might I even lure Mr Lovis Snr into sharing his wisdom?
Comparing the Wiki list to the Rothmans lists highlights several differences and there are a few names that appear on both lists that possibly shouldn’t and a few names that are not on either list that probably should be.
PRE-LEAGUE MANAGERS
Both lists start from 1927. TUFC clearly had a manager from the time the professional club was formed in 1921. Add Crad Evans 1921-24 and Harry Raymond 1924-25, and extend Percy Mackrill’s reign back to 1925.
MANAGERS WHO NEVER ACTUALLY STARTED WORK
The obvious one here is Leroy’s second reign. He was announced as manager on May 17, 2007 and did the Press Conference but was due to start work on June 1 by which time the club had changed ownership and made other plans. If Leroy never actually started work, he shouldn’t really be listed, should he?
A second case is Albert Hoskins back in 1929. He accepted the job and was announced as manager in the press, but subsequently changed his mind and never took up the post. At least Rothmans lists him as just 1929 and correctly has Womack listed as 1929/32, but both Wiki and Soccerbase mistakenly claim that Hoskins was in situ throughout the 1929/30 season. Like Leroy, he never actually started work so to my mind he shouldn’t really be listed.
CARETAKER MANAGERS
There is no way I would count Jimmy Hargreaves as Wiki does. How many others would a one or two game caretaker stint open the doors to? Mick Buxton, Dickie Hancox and several others.
The two exceptions who had lengthy caretaker terms would be Frank O’Farrell in 1976/77 and Wes Saunders in 1991/92. I would include both of these as Wiki does, but Rothmans doesn’t. The one clear error in the Rothmans list is that it has Impey down as 1991/92. He definitely left well before the end of 1991.
CONSULTANTS
This particular Batesonism gave us Neil Warnock in 1993 and Colin Lee in 2001. I would say that you would have to include both as Wiki does but Rothmans doesn’t. Atkins also started off in that category but is in both lists anyway as he went on to accept the manager’s job permanently. I am pretty sure that the club expected Colin Lee’s role to go the same way in 2007, but he wasted no time in getting Curle in when Kubik was sacked so Lee would not be listed for a second stint.
SHORT STINTS
We’ve had quite a few managers who lasted less than a year – but obviously that doesn’t stop them being listed. I think John Sims holds the record.
Does anybody agree or disagree with any of the above? Might I even lure Mr Lovis Snr into sharing his wisdom?
